huge walkin freezer not lower than 35f
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
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    4

    Huge warehouse freezer cant go below 35f

    I am trying to get a walk in freezer maybe about 80X30ft fixed. not cold enough with ice buildup behind one coil. was told the compressor is old and raggedy.I have been through many contractors to fix it. It currently is about 35f because its starting to get cold outside.
    recently one contractor recommended by a friend looked at it tolde me
    1)The insulation is terrible with freezer panels built on top of concrete.(code violation?)
    2) i got an old unit prone to frequent servicings

    He said if I had proper insulation the 'old' unit could be good enough to cool the place or freeze it.
    He told me I would need to buy at least 4"insulation on floor in addition to diamond plate. which will protect the fork lift.
    He should get back to me with a quote for the insulation
    ( any advice please with rough ballpark figures appreciated)
    this is for a job in north va (alexandria area)

    [Edited by za on 10-12-2004 at 01:37 AM]

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    1,149
    We'd need a whole bunch more info to help.
    What is the capacity of the existing unit?
    What condition is the compressor in?
    What is the temperature differential across the
    evap coil?
    What defrost method and timings are being used?
    Is the size of the unit appropriate for the box.

    I suspect if it's worked in the past, it'll work again and some mechanical failure has occured or change from the
    original design.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    10
    There is nothing wrong with concrete! Though it will need to have been insulated and proper underfloor heating so that the ground beneath with not freeze and heave the concrete. As to your insulation most that I have done are 4" standard foam panles. Some do go with thicker but most go with the minimum.

    As to your compressor, what is make and model? Also the refrigerant is being used. We will goet to the rest later!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    11,937
    za,

    Ask your contractor to visit us with your information here or get all of the information yourself and get back to us. We can help with the diagnosis and help you the fix the bugs but we can't discuss pricing on this site. This will be a fun challenge.

    This is what we need to help you. If anyone else can think of something I missed, type it up.

    Compressor model numbers and serial numbers
    Evaporator model numbers
    Suction and liquid line sizes and run lengths
    TXV sizes
    Hot gas or electric defrost?
    How many defrosts a day and for how long?
    Timed or temperature kick out ( X ) or both
    Temperature of fan delay cut in of if they work at all
    Type of refrigerant
    Superheat and Subcooling information on each refrigeration unit as it is running now.
    Head master bypass or fan cycle control?
    Wall thickness and insulation type (age will do for insulation material)
    Your desired holding temperature
    Amount of lighting inside the box and what type
    How many people inside the box daily
    How many hours a day does the fork lift operate in the box
    Electric or propane fork lift?
    What type of door (s) are in the box and are they left open, if so for how long in a 24 hour period.
    Do the doors seal well?
    Any air gaps in the wall or ceiling panels?
    The type of product you keep in the box?
    Do you freeze processed foods or just hold the temp?
    How many pounds of product you store in box for an average 24 hour period?
    and... if you know how thick the concrete floor is and if it is insulated or heated will be a plus...

    Oh yeah, diamond plate will not protect the fork lift, it will protect his version of a floor from being damaged by the fork lift.

    Anyone else want to add anything??





  5. #5
    Use it for a cooler and buy a new freezer.
    Hey cockroach, don't bug me!

    www.AskTheDiceman.com

    www.TheColdConspiracy.com

    www.Pennwood-HVAC.Com

    Bring Em Home....

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    4
    sorry for replying so late I have been trying to get information to give you. I noticed that I mispoke when I said I went through many contractors, actually its my aunt who is renting the facility.
    I dont know if you can help me because i cant get much information partly because theres tension about costs and whether to even bother spending more money(just use it as a cooler)
    someone else that uses the facility told me there is no problem with the concrete because a special epoxy? expensive paint can be painted on the concrete I guess that will seal the floor? (said cost about $500 a gallon)
    He is saying fix the compressor the proper way by spending a lot of money once, get rid of the ice build up behind the coil and it will freeze bc he said he did get it to go -15 before
    ON the other hand I heard that if you have a walk freezer built on concrete without proper insulation, moisture under the concrete will freeze, expanding it and cause a lot of damage to the entire building.
    so I know I didnt tell you guys much but maybe if you can comment at least on what I just mentioned
    thanks



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    10
    Originally posted by za
    (1)I dont know if you can help me because i cant get much information partly because theres tension about costs and whether to even bother spending more money(just use it as a cooler)

    (2) someone else that uses the facility told me there is no problem with the concrete because a special epoxy? expensive paint can be painted on the concrete I guess that will seal the floor? (said cost about $500 a gallon)

    (3) He is saying fix the compressor the proper way by spending a lot of money once, get rid of the ice build up behind the coil and it will freeze bc he said he did get it to go -15 before

    (4) ON the other hand I heard that if you have a walk freezer built on concrete without proper insulation, moisture under the concrete will freeze, expanding it and cause a lot of damage to the entire building.
    so I know I didnt tell you guys much but maybe if you can comment at least on what I just mentioned
    thanks
    (1) If this is what they intend to do they will be spending more money on wasted energy than is needed. Depending on the conditions the system may not be designed to run at a higher suction.

    (2) Although you do need to seal the floor an expoxy paint is not the answer. Concrete dust is more of the problem with lots of fork truck traffic.

    (3) Yes fix the compressor if it is in need. But if the evaporator is a block of ice it sounds like we might want to start there. Defrost is critical for maintaining a low temp freezer.

    (4) If this was designed and used as a freezer for many years there is more than likely some type of under floor warming to prevent the ground from freezing.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    11,937
    Epoxy paint is not an insulator.

    OK... you are going to stand in a walk in freezer that is -10*

    You are wearing nothing but a gallon of paint. Are you going to get cold?


  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    East Stroudsburg, PA
    Posts
    13,215
    Well, last time, I've got to say, I was damn cold.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    4
    lusker, if youre made with concrete you might not mind
    the epoxy paint thing is the guy speaking I know nothing about I was just getting 'expert' opinion on it

    The wasted energy is a good point but is there more implications to using a freezer as a cooler? as far as damage to the unit let say if the thermostat is adjusted to say 5 below zero?
    as far as the forklift traffic its not much because you can guess its not a freezer, so frozen merchandize movement has been hampered and limited to items that can last at 0c.
    How much is the concrete dust an issue?
    and about the water build up under the concrete, is that common or is it only a problem when the proper insulation hasnt been put in place?

    [Edited by za on 10-14-2004 at 08:45 PM]

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    10
    As I stated before. If this has been used as a freezer for many years there is more than likely enough insulation and heat sourse. We really need to address the defrost situation and the evaporators. This will help more than anything right now! If indeed they are a block of ice. They could be flooding the sysetem and without the right controls could slug the compressor(s). Lets take care of this one first.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    11,937
    Originally posted by za
    lusker, if youre made with concrete you might not mind
    the epoxy paint thing is the guy speaking I know nothing about I was just getting 'expert' opinion on it

    The wasted energy is a good point but is there more implications to using a freezer as a cooler? as far as damage to the unit let say if the thermostat is adjusted to say 5 below zero?
    as far as the forklift traffic its not much because you can guess its not a freezer, so frozen merchandize movement has been hampered and limited to items that can last at 0c.
    How much is the concrete dust an issue?
    and about the water build up under the concrete, is that common or is it only a problem when the proper insulation hasnt been put in place?

    [Edited by za on 10-14-2004 at 08:45 PM]
    That's pretty good za... I like that but we are not made of concrete and glad you got the point. The water in our bodies will freeze just like the water under the slab but only if the proper insulation is in place, as answer to your last question. So paint ain't going to do it.

    Your first question is about turning a freezer into a cooler. There are other factors to look at when doing that when maintaining a temp of 36 -38*. One would be that compressors are not only air or water cooled they are refrigerant cooled too. If you don't have enough refrigerant coming back to your compressor you may cause it to overheat, if too much you may flood it and wash out the oil and burn bearings or worse.

    Second part... set to -5* you should see no damage at all again, depending on proper superheat and subcooling.

    Third part...I can't see concrete dust being a factor except with evap coil build up, like dust and dirt will slow the airflow and heat transfere and create a freeze up problem. With a planned maintenance in place the coils will be properly washed.

    Dave...sorry I brought up a bad memory!




  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    4
    thanks again for the reply. I dont know the history for that freezer and I guess Im wasting everybodies bandwidth and expert freebies
    I learned so much from these posts but I was still wondering what the possibility of heat introduction from regular concrete as opposed to insulated concrete?
    As far as defrosting I am not sure how often they've done that and I will check

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