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  1. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by pageyjim View Post
    I am waiting to hear what surviving members of the real White Roses has to say about this. I am betting they will not be pleased.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Susanne Hirzel, the surviving member of the original "Weiße Rose" is active member of the organization "Pax Europe" which opposes Islamization.
    She is indeed comparing Islam and the Nazi-regime.
    You can find an interview with her about the subject here:

    http://www.newenglishreview.org/cust...2/sec_id/48022

  2. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by pageyjim View Post
    I am waiting to hear what surviving members of the real White Roses has to say about this. I am betting they will not be pleased.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    "We're honored to say the video was inspired, in part, by three Citizen Warrior articles:

    The Least You Need to Know About Islam

    What "Religion of Peace" Really Means

    What is the Root Cause of Islamic Terrorism?"

    " I suggest you use that site to share the video with your uninformed friends: Three Things About Islam Video."

    One last thing: The video presents information you probably already know, but its "target market" is people who don't know much, so it's a good tool we can use to share with less-informed people. I hope you use it."

    http://citizenwarriors.com/2010/07/white-roses.html

    Well even if you believe the crap on this video. The following is in the 109th chapter(Sura) out of 114 and nothing after it contradicts it.
    Read 109:6 sounds like live and let live.
    FROM THE QURAN
    109:1 Say: O disbelievers!
    109:2 I worship not that which ye worship;
    109:3 Nor worship ye that which I worship.
    109:4 And I shall not worship that which ye worship.
    109:5 Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
    109:6 Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion.
    Your ignorance of the Koran is showing. You incorrectly assume that the later suras in the Koran are the last ones written. That is not the case at all. The chapters (suras) are not in consecutive order.

    The suras you list were written very early in Muhammad's career, written at a time before he rejected jews and christians and began his reign of terror against those who refused to convert to Islam.

    Later suras abrogate the so called peaceful and accepting suras and replace them with the agressive, angry and violent statements and commands. Those later suras are contained in earlier suras and replace (Islamic doctrine of abrogation) the more peaceful suras.

    Westerners ignorant of the Koran assume the Koran is chronological, it is not. The suras of the Koran are arrainged by length not chronology which makes it that much more difficult to figure out. Those of us who have actually studied the Koran, how it came to be and how it is arrainged know that supporters of Islam regularly take verses out of order in an effort to support their preconcieved view of Islam.

    Hugh
    "No matter how thirsty your imagination, mirages contain no water"

  3. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh B View Post
    Your ignorance of the Koran is showing. You incorrectly assume that the later suras in the Koran are the last ones written. That is not the case at all. The chapters (suras) are not in consecutive order.

    The suras you list were written very early in Muhammad's career, written at a time before he rejected jews and christians and began his reign of terror against those who refused to convert to Islam.

    Later suras abrogate the so called peaceful and accepting suras and replace them with the agressive, angry and violent statements and commands. Those later suras are contained in earlier suras and replace (Islamic doctrine of abrogation) the more peaceful suras.

    Westerners ignorant of the Koran assume the Koran is chronological, it is not. The suras of the Koran are arrainged by length not chronology which makes it that much more difficult to figure out. Those of us who have actually studied the Koran, how it came to be and how it is arrainged know that supporters of Islam regularly take verses out of order in an effort to support their preconcieved view of Islam.

    Hugh
    That is true about the order of suras. I have checked about 20 sources and this is not one of the app 21-25 that is abrogated. This does not deny that there are extremists who are the issue and not all of Islam.
    "War is cruelty,and you cannot refine it." Sherman to the leadership of Atlanta prior to burning the city.

    "Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen."
    Albert Einstein

    Romney campaign: "We're not going to let our campaign be ruled by fact-checkers,"

    Lindsey Graham: “We’re not generating enough angry white guys to stay in business for the long term.”

  4. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWhiteR0ses View Post
    Susanne Hirzel, the surviving member of the original "Weiße Rose" is active member of the organization "Pax Europe" which opposes Islamization.
    She is indeed comparing Islam and the Nazi-regime.
    You can find an interview with her about the subject here:
    One ex-member gives some support to this activity. I am curious, I can find no website for this new WhiteRoses group and the same for Pax Europe.
    "War is cruelty,and you cannot refine it." Sherman to the leadership of Atlanta prior to burning the city.

    "Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen."
    Albert Einstein

    Romney campaign: "We're not going to let our campaign be ruled by fact-checkers,"

    Lindsey Graham: “We’re not generating enough angry white guys to stay in business for the long term.”

  5. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh B View Post
    Your ignorance of the Koran is showing. You incorrectly assume that the later suras in the Koran are the last ones written. That is not the case at all. The chapters (suras) are not in consecutive order.

    The suras you list were written very early in Muhammad's career, written at a time before he rejected jews and christians and began his reign of terror against those who refused to convert to Islam.

    Later suras abrogate the so called peaceful and accepting suras and replace them with the agressive, angry and violent statements and commands. Those later suras are contained in earlier suras and replace (Islamic doctrine of abrogation) the more peaceful suras.

    Westerners ignorant of the Koran assume the Koran is chronological, it is not. The suras of the Koran are arrainged by length not chronology which makes it that much more difficult to figure out. Those of us who have actually studied the Koran, how it came to be and how it is arrainged know that supporters of Islam regularly take verses out of order in an effort to support their preconcieved view of Islam.

    Hugh
    Precisely correct. Most Christians do not realize that the Bible is also not compiled in chronological order, but rather was compiled in groupings according to content.

    Mohammed changed many aspects of his creation of Islam during his lifetime. Early on in Mohammeds life, Jews and Christians were excempt from the violent conversions that Pagans were because Mohammed considered Jews and Christians to be people of "The Book", referring to the Hebrew Bible in which Islam recognizes as true up until the separation of Ismael from Abraham.

    Mohammed's original target for conversion were Jews and Christians, who Mohammed thought would easily convert to his ridiculously contrived version of what occured after Ismael was banished into the wilderness with his mother. Mohammed originally made Jerusalem, the center of Judaism and Christianity, the focal point of prayer. Once Mohammed realize that Jews and Christians were not going to convert to his newly contrived, militaristic and politically geared organization, Mohammed changed the focal point of prayer to Mecca. This worked out great because now Mohammed could justify attacking the wealthier Jews and his riches increased by leaps and bounds.

    Mohammed changed rules for marriage, rules for prayer, rules for most everything over his lifetime of reciting the commands that became the Qu'ran. Islam is not a religion, but if it were, it would be a Satanic one.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  6. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by pageyjim View Post
    That is true about the order of suras. I have checked about 20 sources and this is not one of the app 21-25 that is abrogated. This does not deny that there are extremists who are the issue and not all of Islam.
    The thing we must keep in mind is the intent of Islam. Mohammed was a militaristic, political genius whose creation of the Islam is a blight for everything that is not Islam.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  7. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by pageyjim View Post
    One ex-member gives some support to this activity. I am curious, I can find no website for this new WhiteRoses group and the same for Pax Europe.
    Just what does it take to remove the blinders from you page? You act as if someone whacked the head off of your mother because that is what is written to do in the Qu'ran that you would somehow find an excuse for why Islam had nothing to do with it. Why?
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  8. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    Just what does it take to remove the blinders from you page? You act as if someone whacked the head off of your mother because that is what is written to do in the Qu'ran that you would somehow find an excuse for why Islam had nothing to do with it. Why?
    What in the heck are you talking about? If you want to say that to me fine, but that has nothing to do with your quote of me. Don't you find this curious about these 2 groups?

    Robo there are extremists in Islam and they should be combatted. A "Marshall type plan" would have gone a lot further than another war. We even had Iranian help when it came to the Afghanistan War. We lost a good chance, the world was on our side. I know that is the past. But we can't bury the Constitution and become like them to combat this.
    "War is cruelty,and you cannot refine it." Sherman to the leadership of Atlanta prior to burning the city.

    "Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen."
    Albert Einstein

    Romney campaign: "We're not going to let our campaign be ruled by fact-checkers,"

    Lindsey Graham: “We’re not generating enough angry white guys to stay in business for the long term.”

  9. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by pageyjim View Post
    But we can't bury the Constitution and become like them to combat this.
    Very interesting and important comment! The problem is, as I see it, is that we have a president and a majority of the congress that is doing just that.....burying the Consititution. Or at least not paying much attention to it.

    That's a separate subject though to me.

    This new type enemy, call them what you may, is intent on using our own Constitution against us. All the freedoms that we have and we continue to fight for are under attack from a completely different way and/or method that is extreme difficult to counter..except for the fact that our Constitution and center core of this country is strong enough to stand the test and not only survive but prosper from this episode of history--again.

    But we need be careful because it's very easy to start that slippery slope of letting them defeat us through our own short sightness such as making a bad decission on the NYC mosque subject. And beleive me, there will be many more "attacks" such as this in the future.

    I believe we, as Americans, will do the right thing. But I also believe that we, as Americans, are not being represented by our elected officials at many levels anymore.

    And we need to keep in mind that fact when we go to the voting booths pretty soon.

    Personally, as long as we, as Americans, can fight, argue, kid, spew, protest, discuss and have decisions such as this and on the streets openingly and honestly, then whatever decision is made will be the correct one considering we were given this situation by snakes in the grass.
    "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers it can bribe the public with the public's own money.
    - Alexis de Toqueville, 1835

  10. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeltaT View Post
    Very interesting and important comment! The problem is, as I see it, is that we have a president and a majority of the congress that is doing just that.....burying the Consititution. Or at least not paying much attention to it.

    This new type enemy, call them what you may, is intent on using our own Constitution against us. All the freedoms that we have and we continue to fight for are under attack from a completely different way and/or method that is extreme difficult to counter..except for the fact that our Constitution and center core of this country is strong enough to stand the test and not only survive but prosper from this episode of history--again.

    But we need be careful because it's very easy to start that slippery slope of letting them defeat us through our own short sightness such as making a bad decission on the NYC mosque subject. And beleive me, there will be many more "attacks" such as this in the future.
    I don't see how the Constitution is being buried by Pres. Obama or this congress.(Besides sustaining some policies of the previous administration.) The slippery slope you speak of, would be to stop the building of this mosque on the grounds being spoken here. And we and the Constitution are strong enough to withstand this.
    "War is cruelty,and you cannot refine it." Sherman to the leadership of Atlanta prior to burning the city.

    "Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen."
    Albert Einstein

    Romney campaign: "We're not going to let our campaign be ruled by fact-checkers,"

    Lindsey Graham: “We’re not generating enough angry white guys to stay in business for the long term.”

  11. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by pageyjim View Post
    I don't see how the Constitution is being buried by Pres. Obama or this congress.(Besides sustaining some policies of the previous administration.) The slippery slope you speak of, would be to stop the building of this mosque on the grounds being spoken here. And we and the Constitution are strong enough to withstand this.
    Get over it page. The Constitution is not made to give comfort and aide to our enemies. Islam is not a "religion" like all the others. It supports slavery, murder of innocents and totalitarian rule by Imams.

    It is all in there holy book the Koran. Can you or will you understand that. Thank you very much.
    "I could have ended the war in a month. I could have made North Vietnam look like a mud puddle."
    "I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them. It is not to inaugurate new programs, but to cancel old ones that do violence to the Constitution."
    Barry Goldwater

  12. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by pageyjim View Post
    I don't see how the Constitution is being buried by Pres. Obama or this congress.(Besides sustaining some policies of the previous administration.) The slippery slope you speak of, would be to stop the building of this mosque on the grounds being spoken here. And we and the Constitution are strong enough to withstand this.
    Islam wants to overthrow the constitution and replace it with an Islamic State under Islamic Law (shaira law). This is their goal for all the world.

    I am not going to allow any enemy of the constitution to use the constitution to destroy our democratic society. Elected officials swore to uphold the constitution. Those who aid the enemy are guilty of treason.

    My position is in defense of the constitution. Yours pageyjim, seems intent on aiding the enemy of the constitution.

    Not even Walmart has an absolute right to build a store anywhere they want. So what is the problem with making Islam build their mosque elsewhere?

    Remember, Islam is not another religion. Islam is a military, economic, political, legal system in competition with democracy. Islam should be outlawed in all democracies.
    "No matter how thirsty your imagination, mirages contain no water"

  13. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh B View Post
    Remember, Islam is not another religion. Islam is a military, economic, political, legal system in competition with democracy. Islam should be outlawed in all democracies.
    And this is the specific point that these creatures are using our Constitution or Freedom of Religion to get us.

    Even if a person starts a religion called "The Church of Ralph" we, as Americans, pretty much will go along with that and let them build, talk, promote and benefit all the other things that can go along with those freedoms provide by us and fought by us to keep and maintain.

    Then we have people who come along and believe this is a loop hole and a weakness within our sytem and attempt to use it against us.

    So if we, the American people, declare that their believe system is not one of religion then what is to say that we have now opened to door for other special interest groups to have declared other believe systems not to be one of a religion.

    Interesting huh? But I have full faith in our system...actually I don't anymore to be perfectly blunt..only because of the existing leadership, or lack of leadership in our Federal Govt. But I still believe that our structure will survive this test and come out stronger.

    This is the first time in the history of the USA that not only are we fighting an enemy from abroad, but also one from within and in a leadership position.
    "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers it can bribe the public with the public's own money.
    - Alexis de Toqueville, 1835

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