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  1. #40
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    Don't know if it is true,but people have told me it will be cheaper to pay the fines then the benefits.

  2. #41
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    Apr 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by coolperfect View Post
    Don't know if it is true,but people have told me it will be cheaper to pay the fines then the benefits.
    I don't understand, can you elaborate a little bit Mr. Camaro? Opps, coolperfect .
    "You boys are really making this thing harder than it has to be". Me

    "Who ARE you people? And WHAT are you doing in my SWAMP!?" Shrek

    Service calls submitted after 3PM will be posted the next business day.

    I give free estimates [Wild Ass Guesses] over the phone.

    "I am sorry for interrupting, please continue with your quarreling" Some chick on TV

  3. #42
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    Nov 2001
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    Seattle, WA
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    7,763
    Quote Originally Posted by Tool-Slinger View Post
    I don't understand, can you elaborate a little bit Mr. Camaro? Opps, coolperfect .
    I'll see if I can splain' this right.

    Present situation is that corporations, as one example, pay premiums for their employees. So that's entirely between the company and the employee to determine cost vs benefit.

    Obamacare steps in and the cost for paying the fine for NOT having insurance on the same employees is less than the premium that the company is now paying....so some if not one hect of a lot of companies will stop providing insurance to their employees which save the company one hect of a lot of money.

    But you ask, what does the employee now get for heath insurance? The employee signs up for Obamacare and pays out of their own pocket for insurance.

    This is the wave of the future, you say? Kind of yes because you might think that companies would be foolish to do such a thing...but companies are getting so many additional and increased costs of business due to the unbelievalbe things obama and congress have already set in place that they will be forced, finacially, to make these kinds of decisions.

    Besides, with obama and congress now interferring with our daily free enterprise system, most every company will be forced to do this dropping of inhouse health care as a benefit to employees so employees won't have the availibility and benefit of moving down the road to another company that will provide in house health care. Competition is out the window.

    It's a total destruction of our bartering systems where the company is allowed to and must compete for the best employees if they want to get the best employee and keep the best employee.

    One ingredient of this messed up economy we now have and face is that anyone who owns business of any type and size can not make a proper business decision on what direction to go since the federal government and obama are now in the middle of every decision.

    Who's going to want to make a large committment of money, time and talent in this nation when 2 month, 6, months or 2 years from now obama and his fools are going to interfer with whatever course that a company has made.

    It's all on hold, the entire USA, because of these fools.
    "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers it can bribe the public with the public's own money.
    - Alexis de Toqueville, 1835

  4. #43
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    Sep 2002
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    Yep,on hold existing house sales out today,worst in years.Thanks for that answer Delta

  5. #44
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    Apr 2005
    Location
    N. E. Missouri
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    9,750
    Because the prop was gone, no more home buyer credit! So, sales dropped like a rock. According to news reports this is the largest drop from the month before since record keeping began in 1968--27%. That's what happens though when something is artificially inflated to begin with. That's not the only reason but it's a good one. High unemployment, tighter credit practices, nervous lenders and borrowers both--all contribute.
    Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

  6. #45
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    Apr 2007
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    Kaufman county, Texas
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeltaT View Post
    I'll see if I can splain' this right.

    Present situation is that corporations, as one example, pay premiums for their employees. So that's entirely between the company and the employee to determine cost vs benefit.

    Obamacare steps in and the cost for paying the fine for NOT having insurance on the same employees is less than the premium that the company is now paying....so some if not one hect of a lot of companies will stop providing insurance to their employees which save the company one hect of a lot of money.

    But you ask, what does the employee now get for heath insurance? The employee signs up for Obamacare and pays out of their own pocket for insurance.

    This is the wave of the future, you say? Kind of yes because you might think that companies would be foolish to do such a thing...but companies are getting so many additional and increased costs of business due to the unbelievalbe things obama and congress have already set in place that they will be forced, finacially, to make these kinds of decisions.

    Besides, with obama and congress now interferring with our daily free enterprise system, most every company will be forced to do this dropping of inhouse health care as a benefit to employees so employees won't have the availibility and benefit of moving down the road to another company that will provide in house health care. Competition is out the window.

    It's a total destruction of our bartering systems where the company is allowed to and must compete for the best employees if they want to get the best employee and keep the best employee.

    One ingredient of this messed up economy we now have and face is that anyone who owns business of any type and size can not make a proper business decision on what direction to go since the federal government and obama are now in the middle of every decision.

    Who's going to want to make a large committment of money, time and talent in this nation when 2 month, 6, months or 2 years from now obama and his fools are going to interfer with whatever course that a company has made.

    It's all on hold, the entire USA, because of these fools.
    Thanks for the explanation!

    Actually it mirrors the same situation an individual faces too, cheaper to pay fine. The whole idea is just nuts, but I bet they will come back and raise the penalties to "make it work". Unless there is any chance of getting obamacare repealed.

    I understand the rest, I made the same point before that basically the economy doesn't like change. If elections result in some grid-lock, it may do much to help things start to correct next year. Just because the dufusus in DC will stop changing the rules ever 6 weeks. It is really hard to operate in this type of environment.

    So far as I can see, nothing is improving,.. NOTHING! I just hope it doesn't get any worse at this point.
    "You boys are really making this thing harder than it has to be". Me

    "Who ARE you people? And WHAT are you doing in my SWAMP!?" Shrek

    Service calls submitted after 3PM will be posted the next business day.

    I give free estimates [Wild Ass Guesses] over the phone.

    "I am sorry for interrupting, please continue with your quarreling" Some chick on TV

  7. #46
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    Nov 2001
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    Seattle, WA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tool-Slinger View Post
    So far as I can see, nothing is improving,.. NOTHING! I just hope it doesn't get any worse at this point.
    And I have no ideal why anyone with blood circulating in their body would think anything will or is about to improve on a solid basis.

    I'll state it one more time just for the record. We, the USA, are not in a recession. We are in a destruction of our free economic and free society system.

    Nothing is going to get better on a real term basis. It's only going to get worse. If you have cut back on expensive to ride out what you think is a recession, think again..and cut your expenses in half again.

    Even at that many are not going to make it.
    "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers it can bribe the public with the public's own money.
    - Alexis de Toqueville, 1835

  8. #47
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    Kaufman county, Texas
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeltaT View Post
    And I have no ideal why anyone with blood circulating in their body would think anything will or is about to improve on a solid basis.

    I'll state it one more time just for the record. We, the USA, are not in a recession. We are in a destruction of our free economic and free society system.

    Nothing is going to get better on a real term basis. It's only going to get worse. If you have cut back on expensive to ride out what you think is a recession, think again..and cut your expenses in half again.

    Even at that many are not going to make it.
    Now that is what I call, "a rather grim assessment".

    But with all the evidernce out there, I cannot argue with it.

    This has just become a daily raining of bad economic news. Today it is 15 year lowest home sales & 15 year lowest dollar value against yen. Something new almost every day, and none of it is good.

    "You boys are really making this thing harder than it has to be". Me

    "Who ARE you people? And WHAT are you doing in my SWAMP!?" Shrek

    Service calls submitted after 3PM will be posted the next business day.

    I give free estimates [Wild Ass Guesses] over the phone.

    "I am sorry for interrupting, please continue with your quarreling" Some chick on TV

  9. #48
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    Jul 2009
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    Connectitaxed
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tool-Slinger View Post
    Now that is what I call, "a rather grim assessment".

    But with all the evidernce out there, I cannot argue with it.

    This has just become a daily raining of bad economic news. Today it is 15 year lowest home sales & 15 year lowest dollar value against yen. Something new almost every day, and none of it is good.

    Yea ,The Dow took a dive on the news......Double dip recession is being spoken of more and more.

  10. #49
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    Seattle, WA
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    Seriously, you guys have no idea. I have been wrong before since I thought for sure as the heat hit the major cities the unemployeed and about to be unemployeed would hit the streets and there would be majoy police actions. None of that happened, I'm glad to say.

    But I think it's because the stress in this present day world is hidden inside the homes and rentals of all the people who never saw this coming, can't see it coming and are going numb to what is happening in their lives.

    Riots before were done by frustrated inner city people feed up with being left out of the American Dream.

    These new folks in disperation find themselve in a survival situation that they are sorely equipped to deal with, especially when they see their neighbors buy a new car.

    This winter is going to be a long hard one, I think. I hope I'm wrong again.
    "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers it can bribe the public with the public's own money.
    - Alexis de Toqueville, 1835

  11. #50
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    Feb 2009
    Location
    Canada
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tool-Slinger View Post
    Now that is what I call, "a rather grim assessment".

    But with all the evidernce out there, I cannot argue with it.

    This has just become a daily raining of bad economic news. Today it is 15 year lowest home sales & 15 year lowest dollar value against yen. Something new almost every day, and none of it is good.

    We had a 30% drop in sales also. British Columbia and Ontario added a tax on house sales and since they are the largest markets they had a large effect on the national average. Mind you there was a great increase in sales leading up to it so the pent up demand was partially stated. Think the same may have happened with you.

    But in our case house prices have retained their value as we did not have the housing boom you guys had with people thinking they could not loose in real estate.

    In our case people bought houses to live in while many in your market bought them on speculation the value will go up. Now you have a glut of houses and that limits the sector of the economy.

  12. #51
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    Apr 2007
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    Kaufman county, Texas
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    Quote Originally Posted by pdrake65 View Post
    Yea ,The Dow took a dive on the news......Double dip recession is being spoken of more and more.
    Yup, "depression" is getting mention too.

    Personal re-think, back to jobs which is a corner-stone of our economy:

    No matter what happens in November, Obama seems determined to kill any tax-cut continuation, at least for employer-level taxpayers. So we are already looking at a bad Christmas shopping season that accounts for much of business revenue for some, then tax increases for employers. I am not saying that will necessarily lead to massive lay-offs, but it may lead to some and kill re-hires. This could well be a downward spiral. If you think about it that way.
    "You boys are really making this thing harder than it has to be". Me

    "Who ARE you people? And WHAT are you doing in my SWAMP!?" Shrek

    Service calls submitted after 3PM will be posted the next business day.

    I give free estimates [Wild Ass Guesses] over the phone.

    "I am sorry for interrupting, please continue with your quarreling" Some chick on TV

  13. #52
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    Sep 2002
    Posts
    2,734
    I think something is going to happen,some kind of catalist to start the ball rolling.Maybe a tax cut or some hiring plan. Too much pressure is now being put on the Whitehouse from many places. OB will have to rethink some of his plans,and soon.I hope so i bought stocks today.

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