Time delay module and Honeywell Visionpro 8321

[Jfwireless]

Running a 3 stage heat and 2 stage cool 5 ton Trane XLi19i condensor with matching variable speed Trane AH. I notice that when the thermostat first calls for cooing, I hear one of the contactors pull in and than drop out, After several minutes it than starts up just fine. Cooling house OK and notice most of the time on stage 1 and only drawing 6.8 amps.

I notice the Honeywell VisionPro thermostat has a built in time delay function, to help protect the condensor unit with power outages. I also notice that a time delay module has been installed on the 24 Vac line coming into the condensor unit, the red wire.

If the thermostat has a time delay function built in , should I also have the time delay module installed in the 24 VAC line to the condensor unit?

Thinking it might have something to do with the failed start issue with the condensor?

This is my first post, lots of good information and discussion here. Awesome

Jim

[big sky hvac]

The built in time delay in the thermostat is designed to prevent the compressor from short cycling. If the compressor is running, then loses power and tries to start again without having the refrigerant pressures equalize, it can cause damage to the compressor. As far as having an additional time delay installed outside at the condenser, not sure why there is one. It also depends on which type of time delay was installed. There are delay on make and a delay on break timers, so depending on which one you have, that may or may not be why it's not starting.

[Jfwireless]

Its a delay on break 5 minute timer. Seems redundant to me, so that is why I posted. Just a two wire module. I notice there is a load and input wire on the 5 minute module. Ironically the load wire is connected to the thermostat red wire , and the input wire goes to the red wire on the condensor unit.

So not only does it look like a redundant timer, it appears to be wired in reverse?


Jim

[Airmechanical]

there is no 12 volt line.

if your a/h says comfortlink on it you should of used the communicating stat



.

[Jfwireless]

there is no 12 volt line.

if your a/h says comfortlink on it you should of used the communicating stat



.

Sorry, 24 VAC is what I meant, straight from the xmfr in the AH. The AH is the communicating type, but the condensor unit is not, thats why we are using the Honeywell thermostat.

Jim

[Airmechanical]

Sorry, 24 VAC is what I meant, straight from the xmfr in the AH. The AH is the communicating type, but the condensor unit is not, thats why we are using the Honeywell thermostat.

Jim

if they added a time delay, it probably needs to come off

it sounds like you have the 19i communicating condenser why was a 900 stat not used



.

[Jfwireless]

Thanks for the reply, I do not have the communication condensor. I took the delay module off the condensor, lets see if it works better now.

There are two versions of the XL 19i condensor, one communicating and one not.

Jim

[pacnw]

Its a delay on break 5 minute timer. Seems redundant to me, so that is why I posted.


Jim

others will correct me if I am wrong, but that does NOT seem redundant to me!

delay on break would me that it is STILL energized for 5 minutes AFTER the stat is satisfied/out of the loop.

I read a post in pro section about using a similar set up(I think) to keep the noise/pressures quieter in the defrost mode on heat pumps.

I would reevaluate the removal(if I am correct) and contact the installer and find out why they did this?

[Jfwireless]

others will correct me if I am wrong, but that does NOT seem redundant to me!

delay on break would me that it is STILL energized for 5 minutes AFTER the stat is satisfied/out of the loop.

I read a post in pro section about using a similar set up(I think) to keep the noise/pressures quieter in the defrost mode on heat pumps.

I would reevaluate the removal(if I am correct) and contact the installer and find out why they did this?

So why would I need a delay in the thermostat and an additional delay module on the Condensor?? certainly if I was using a fairly basic thermostat with no delay function the delay module in the condensor makes sense, but that is not the case here.

Jim

[Danimal535]

If they put a freeze stat on the unit you might have a seperate time delay at the condenser

[Jfwireless]

If they put a freeze stat on the unit you might have a seperate time delay at the condenser

I live in Southwest Florida, it hot, it does not freeze here.

Jim

[Danimal535]

A freeze stat that is put on the suction line at the evaporator to stop the coil from freezing

[bmathews]

I wouldn't worry too much about a factory installed time delay. Lots of units have them installed from the factory. If not factory, then call your installer and ask them what is up. Most thermostats installed now are digital and unless disabled in the installer setup are going to have a 5 minute delay. Are you sure it isn't the unit switching from low to high or vice versa. I haven't been around one of the 19 seer in a while and cannot remember exactly it's order of operation. I know the older Carrier's would have a noticeable shift from low to high.

[Jfwireless]

I wouldn't worry too much about a factory installed time delay. Lots of units have them installed from the factory. If not factory, then call your installer and ask them what is up. Most thermostats installed now are digital and unless disabled in the installer setup are going to have a 5 minute delay. Are you sure it isn't the unit switching from low to high or vice versa. I haven't been around one of the 19 seer in a while and cannot remember exactly it's order of operation. I know the older Carrier's would have a noticeable shift from low to high.

Its not a factory installed time delay, it was added by the installers and most likely wired in reverse. Load conencted to red thermostat wire, 24 VAC input wire connected to red wire on condensor.

unit behaves just fine after it gets started.



Jim

[pacnw]

So why would I need a delay in the thermostat and an additional delay module on the Condensor?? certainly if I was using a fairly basic thermostat with no delay function the delay module in the condensor makes sense, but that is not the case here.

Jim

again, please read and understand what you said/wrote here "Its a delay on break 5 minute timer."

your stat is has a, for simplistic comparison, a delay on MAKE timer and this is a delay on BREAK timer.
basically stat delays for specified time BEFORE the condenser is energized.
installed timer is keeping the condenser on for specified time AFTER the stat says to quit.

also, my comment about the defrost delay may be correct, but then they did not complete the needed timers and it is wired incorrectly.

you need to call the person that installed it and find out why they did this so you do not possibly damage the unit. It may seem to be working okay, but an engine runs okay for some time without oil before it seizes and quits.

I am not saying that you will damage anything, but there is that possibility and if you removed something, that would void any warranty my company cover. If they can tell you why they did it, post it here and them we can give you more of an educated, precise and correct answer to your question.

[Joker]

Running a 3 stage heat and 2 stage cool 5 ton Trane XLi19i condensor with matching variable speed Trane AH. I notice that when the thermostat first calls for cooing, I hear one of the contactors pull in and than drop out, After several minutes it than starts up just fine. Cooling house OK and notice most of the time on stage 1 and only drawing 6.8 amps.

I notice the Honeywell VisionPro thermostat has a built in time delay function, to help protect the condensor unit with power outages. I also notice that a time delay module has been installed on the 24 Vac line coming into the condensor unit, the red wire.

If the thermostat has a time delay function built in , should I also have the time delay module installed in the 24 VAC line to the condensor unit?

Thinking it might have something to do with the failed start issue with the condensor?

This is my first post, lots of good information and discussion here. Awesome

Jim

Are you saying there is another relay between the wires coming in from the wall to the control board on the unit?

There is a time delay between 1st and 2nd stage cooling of the compressor that is built into the control board.

I guess im confused about the time delay relay that you see?

[subcool1000]

delay on break would me that it is STILL energized for 5 minutes AFTER the stat is satisfied/out of the loop.

..deviating from the point of the post, but "delay on break" refers to the time delay period starting when power is removed from the TDR. The TDR won't close if powered again until 5 minutes has expired.

I believe the time delay function incorporated into HW stats are "delay on break"...and they are also "adjustable". You can format it to "0" minutes and let the C/U timer handle the delay function. I usually install Rheem stuff w/ HW 5000 stats. The OEM defrost controls have time delay, so I "zero" out the stat delay.

[mark beiser]

again, please read and understand what you said/wrote here "Its a delay on break 5 minute timer."

your stat is has a, for simplistic comparison, a delay on MAKE timer and this is a delay on BREAK timer.
basically stat delays for specified time BEFORE the condenser is energized.
installed timer is keeping the condenser on for specified time AFTER the stat says to quit.

Your understanding of the difference between a delay on break and a delay on make timer is flawed.

With either one, the condenser will turn off as soon as the call for cooling ends.
A delay on break timer starts its time delay when the call for cooling ends. It prevents the condenser from being turned back on during the delay period.
A delay on make timer starts the time delay when the call for cooling begins. On a call for cooling, it will delay the start of the condenser no matter how long it has been off.

The time delay built into most digital thermostats is a delay on break timer.

[Jfwireless]

Are you saying there is another relay between the wires coming in from the wall to the control board on the unit?

There is a time delay between 1st and 2nd stage cooling of the compressor that is built into the control board.

I guess im confused about the time delay relay that you see?

No, the delay on break 5 minute timer in not wired in series with either the stage 1 or stage 2 control wires, but wired to the 24 VAC line powering the condensor control board. This unit has 7 wires between the thermostat and condensor not three. One of the wires is a red wire feeding 24 VAC to the control board, that is where the delay on break 5 minute timer is.

The delay between stage 1 and stage 2 cooling works just fine as programmed into the condensor control board

So the confusion for me is the Thermostat has a delay on break built in , I think we set it for 8 minutes, but that delay on break does not interupt 24VAC to the condensor control board, just delays the time for intial stage 1 cooling. So the two delay on break timers do two different things, the one in the compressor removes 24VAC from the condensor control board for 5 minutes, the delay on break on the thermostat delays intial stage 1 cooling for 8 minutes. I think we are trying to protect the compressor here, so one timer delaying intial stage 1 cooling should be enouigh. Removing 24VAC power from the control board does not sound like a good idea to me.

Jim

[Joker]

No, the delay on break 5 minute timer in not wired in series with either the stage 1 or stage 2 control wires, but wired to the 24 VAC line powering the condensor control board. This unit has 7 wires between the thermostat and condensor not three. One of the wires is a red wire feeding 24 VAC to the control board, that is where the delay on break 5 minute timer is.

The delay between stage 1 and stage 2 cooling works just fine as programmed into the condensor control board

So the confusion for me is the Thermostat has a delay on break built in , I think we set it for 8 minutes, but that delay on break does not interupt 24VAC to the condensor control board, just delays the time for intial stage 1 cooling. So the two delay on break timers do two different things, the one in the compressor removes 24VAC from the condensor control board for 5 minutes, the delay on break on the thermostat delays intial stage 1 cooling for 8 minutes. I think we are trying to protect the compressor here, so one timer delaying intial stage 1 cooling should be enouigh. Removing 24VAC power from the control board does not sound like a good idea to me.

Jim

Gotcha. So your tech added a delay relay to

1). maximize first stage but installed it wrong

or

2). to add a second delay for outside condenser.


I think I you mean #2 which is way over kill. Were you having alot of brown outs?