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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    451
    you more than likely have air in the system.
    Do you have an air seperator such as a spiro-vent. You might have an air seperator above your expansion tank, and depending on your radiators you might have them there.
    If some radiators are warm, follow the piping to the next radiator until you find a colder one, and remove the air. If you have trouble identifying the piping system call a pro.


    The pump will make a little humming noise. If it resonates through out the house follow the pipe the pump is connected to and see if it is touching a floor joist. If it is put something between to absorb the sound.
    Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes...that way you are a mile from them and have their shoes

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    EXIT 16W www.wmtandson.com
    Posts
    3,811
    I would imagine all ciculators fit.
    I have been fooled by a bad circulator more than once
    If you have a 120v at pump then there are only two things that can be wrong.
    Air in the system(I,ve seen the best Plumbers have problems getting air out of some systems)
    Bad circ motor(sometimes they start and two min later their not spinning any more and still have 120v present.

  3. #16

    Hmm Circulator issue update

    Thanks again.

    I did a few more tests.

    On a cold start, everything worked except the circulator. There was 120 VAC at the circulator terminals on the body of the circulator. I heard and felt no humming on the circulator.

    I took a risk and slowly opened the Grundfos at the dime-sized screw in the center of the circulator body. A little water came out. The shaft was not turning. I turned the shaft with a screwdriver to see if it would catch and run - it did not.

    I tested the circulator for 120 VAC after the first premature shut-down (prior to reaching the room thermostat set temperature). It continued to show 120 VAC current even after shut-down (likely to continue circulating heat to the house). The boiler temp was 140 deg F. The aquastat set temp was about 180 deg F.

    Its odd that the system shut down at 140 deg F before reaching the aquastat set temp of 180 deg F.

    On the second cycle (again the room thermostat temp had not been reached) the boiler temperature reached almost 180 deg F with the aquastat still set at 180 deg F. I assume the aquastat senses a pre-set temp and when it is reached it shuts everything down. The circulator continues to run to distribute heat to the house (and cool down the aquastat till the next cycle).

    None of my radiators was hot. Even the hot side pipes about 5 feet from the boiler were cold.

    My opinion (which may be wrong) is that air in the pipes is not the main issue since currently the circulator is not operating. There is no flow so I cannot tell if there are any air pockets. Thanks for the "hum" advice. I'll check for joist contact and install some barriers.

    I'm looking at a circulator by B and G, model NRG-22 I think. It has the same dimensions as the Grundfos. It seems pretty popular around here (Chicago) and the price looks right ($65). Is that a good choice ? This is a 3 BR, 2 bath, 2 story home.

    I appreciate all the expert advice. Its very kind of all of you to spend some time to help out. Thank you.

    Steve

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Southern Tier, NY
    Posts
    6,066

    you have wasted .......

    probably $ 2300 worth of peoples time on this $ 115 dollar service call ..... just go and buy a $ 50 circulator, and be done with it ..if you had called a contractor, you woulda had heat long ago ....

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    1,196
    The B+G would be dead last for my choice. They like to seize.

    See if anyone has the Grunfos SuperBrute 3 speed. This pump is NOT your old one-no worries.. You can tailor the speed and pump curve to your system.

    Taco's 00 series is the next best. The 007 probaly matches your old pump's performance.

    Don't bother with the old pump's start cap..like Slim said, change the pump and be done.

  6. #19

    Thumbs up Circulator issue update

    Thanks again.

    Warning: LONG POST AHEAD

    Looks like problem solved. It seems to be working well. Plus, I better understand my boiler set up. Thats important because I am responsible for this house plus two attached small apartments 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. I have often (but not always) had poor and often expensive advice/work in the past. I like to learn the facts before I decide what to do. If I called a contractor/plumber/electrician./repairmen everytime something went wrong, I'd be in the poor house.

    TACO 007 vs. B&G NRF-22

    A well known fact: The performance curves and prices on these two pumps are virtually identical.

    I replaced my burned out Grundfos with a B & G NRF-22. I initially bought a TACO 007 (the Grundfos's were hard to find and expensive) but I had a lot of difficulty finding the right sized flange assy's for my set up. Really preferred to go with TACO. I heard they are a bit quieter, too. Still, the B & G has much, much better support around here. If it doesn't work out, I'll give B & G a hard time and replace it with a TACO.

    B&G Reliability

    I did a little research on the B & G circulator pump problem. From talks with distributors and a customer feedback rep at B & G there was a problem with the T or TR-100 series (something like that). I understand it been fixed. If it was not fixed, their whole product line reputation would be on the line. It would be pretty foolish not to fix it.

    From what I hear, the water cooled pumps I looked at fall under the "throw-away" category. Not sure I agree. There are some replaceable parts. Not sure what I'll do next time.

    A Short HVAC Story

    My dad's new boiler system has a TACO 0010 circulator. But...
    His old boiler set-up ran a long time before he had to replace it. He regularly oiled the old system's circulator pump (sorry, he does not remember the brand, he's 79 with a poor memory). He also tinkered with boiler settings making it much more safe and efficient. Prior to replacing the old boiler, the circulator pump was still there and still working, after 40+ years of operation.

    Again, thanks for the help and patience.

    Steve

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    1,196
    Glad to hear you did ok

    For the trades, changing out a 007 complete is more cost effective than fooling around with the parts that make it up-one call back would cost us more than it's worth.

    Tip: if the system had a 3 piece circ like the Taco 110, and has zone valves, and you swap the 110 for a 007, sometimes you'll get banging of the zone valves after the swap. That's cause the 110's pump curve is more linear than the sharp ramp-up of the 007. Doesn't happen often, but sometimes..

    I think you have a 3 year waranty on your new 007. Happy Hydronicking!

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    279
    go with b@g series 100 or high velocity depending on what you need. you can see coupler moving so you know its working. motor can be easily disasembled and motor and bearing can be changed seperatly, the coupler can also be changed, can really bring down repair costs. motor and bearing also has oilers so it wont dry up. should fit in location may have to replace mounts, ask distributor.

  9. #22

    Wink A little more on TACO 007 and B & G NRF-22

    Hydronics Man and other folks, thanks for the tips !

    Another warning: LONG POST AHEAD

    You are right, the B & G is warranted for 3 years. That was another reason I reluctantly switched from TACO. I think TACO's warranty is about 1 year. That should help in any immediate manufacturing quality problems. Still, I think most pumps from any manufacturer are designed to last well past the warranty period if you design the system well and install it right. Its the pump longevity that counts.

    After I installed the B & G circulator I made sure it was filled with water and drained air from every system drainage location I could find. When I started up the system, I heard a kind of "washing machine" noise for about a minute. Then it settled down into a steady water flow with a quiet hum. I think I'm okay, but it scared me a bit.

    I checked boiler parameters and the house radiators and all looks good so far. I'll just keep checking periodically. My tenants are pretty pleased, too.

    I do not know how quiet the TACO 007 is compared to the B & G NRF-22. However, the new B & G is much quieter than my old Grundfos. A guilty confession: I actually prefer the low maintenance, water lub. pump design for this system. This house is almost 110 years old so there is always something to do. A zero to low maintenance pump is one less thing to worry about.

    My dad's new boiler system is about 4-5 years old and warrantied, I think, so I'm pretty sure he's okay. He contracted one of the best (and $$$) firms in the area so if something happens, he won't have to fix it himself.

    No need to write back. Just adding a little to the thread.

    Thank you HMan, and thanks everyone !

    Steve




  10. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    73

    Taco Relay SR504

    Here is an odd question about the Taco Relay Zoning Board (SR504). If the 120VAC input into the relay is off will the board still relay the t-stat call from the zone to the boiler and just not be able to energize that zone's circulator?

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Delaware
    Posts
    1,232

    Taco SR504

    No, because the thermostat is powered by the SR504's transformer.
    Work is for people who don't know how to fish.

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Vancouver Canada
    Posts
    996
    Aw Gee I've got 120v at the pump but the pump is not working, what else do you think it would be but the pump? Next time call in a pro and have the damn thing fixed.
    "Go big or Go Home"

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    654
    We used to put that B&G pump in all the time, until after 3 yrs of service they died. Realizing the old TACO 007's were still going strong after 15+ yrs of service, that's all we put in now (again). Hopefully, B&G has fixed their wet rotor design pumps so they match the 007 pump's superiority....always good to have another option. The B&G pump is a snazzy red color too!

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