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  1. #1

    Confused Goodman GSX130421BA

    Just had a Goodman GSX130421BA 13-Seer 3.5 ton Air Condition system installed three weeks ago... It never cooled properly... The air always seemed a bit warm... Never could get the the 1st floor below 80 degrees (it's been 100-105 outside) so the system ran and ran...Also there was no or very little water drain I could tell from the drain hose... The system never expelled heat from the fan (just warm air)... and either coolant lines were never cold.

    We are rehabbing an 2800 sq ft older house with a design of 2 HVAC systems... One for the basement, first floor and partial second floor... The Second system is for the third and partial second with The Second system not installed yet... Thank God

    Since the current system runs and runs...The Installer tells me that we should shut the entire system off until we install drywall to prevent the compressor for burning out... by the way... the compressor (or something in the Unit / not the fan) has this loud shrill sound...

    He says we need to install drywall for the house for the system to be effective... The walls are all currently insulated and the ceiling is bare to the joists... Ceilings are 10' tall... There are no air or water leaks in the walls or windows whatsoever... I shut off the vents to the second floor because the air was a joke... My question is ... Would not having drywall make that big of a difference for an AC not to be able to cool a first floor (1200 sq ft) to 72 or 73 degrees or is it something else?

    Any help is appreciated!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Albany, NY
    Posts
    69
    Sounds like BS to me. If the house is insulated and windows are in, the drywall won't make any difference. He needs to double check his install.If the unit is not cooling, something is wrong with the system. Is the return air hooked up? Check to see if the condenser fan is turning the right way, air should be coming out the top of the unit. I've seen units wired wrong out of the box, same goes for the compressor. Did he open the valves on the condenser to let the refrigerant out into the system? Better get him back over. If the suction line is not getting cold and no humidity is being removed fom the air, it is not working.

  3. #3
    Thanks Mikdel28

    sounds like double BS to me too... what got me is when he installed the system there should've been some mention about the drywall... those walls are insulated, stapled and taped with vapor barriers... windows are top of the line energy efficient with no air leaks... Air is shooting upward from the unit... the R22 is checking at 200 which is within range... the factory did the charge...

    However you did strike a nerve with... "same goes for the compressor. Did he open the valves on the condenser to let the refrigerant out into the system?" .... I'm assuming this would have shown up on the Refrigerant Guage... would it not?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Phoenix
    Posts
    155
    is there insulation in the ceiling? your post doesn't make that clear...

    As for 3.5 tons cooling 2800 square feet in 105 degree weather... well, not gonna happen with standard insulation...

    - even if the ductwork isn't throughout the house, thats an awful lot of latent heat built up in the mass of the building.

    A properly designed + sized system will run all day in 100+ weather - I'd be more worried if it was cycling than running non-stop.

    80 sounds pretty good. - you wouldn't get any cold air if the valves had never been opened.

    what's your humidity?

    It's been 100+ in Phoenix lately, but the humidity is only 17%..

    Vegas shows 4%. = I wouldn't expect much drainage there...

  5. #5
    @ rzyzzy

    The ceilings on the 1st and 2nd floors are not insulated... they are 10' high with exposed joists... The humidity here is hovering between 60-90% ... that's hot and miserable as hell boy!... but the installer (who is a company btw) said that with the Goodman unit running and running will damage the compressor... where we're staying during the rehab... there's a small window unit that cools just fine (Thank God) and has been running non-stop for the past 4 weeks! and it was purchased in 2001 yet!... and you're telling me a $1500 supposedly energy efficient hi-tech unit can't run for three weeks?!!!? ... No there's got to be somethint else to it... and this professional installer has left me to figure it out... Plus, the self-annointed Goodman tech support is nothingless than a complete JOKE!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Phoenix
    Posts
    155
    Well, I'm just a homeowner like you - but what you've described doesn't sound like a Defect.

    your system was professionally installed - use your internet connection to register the warranty and run it till it blows - if it happens in the next ten years you're covered.

    don't shoot anybody - it'll start cycling when you get both systems running and the outdoor temps drop.

  7. #7
    I'm now debating "professionally installed"... when you're doing a rehab... you'd be surprised how everyone is a "professional"... The townehouse attached home we lived in prior to this "historic" move had a Lennox that we had installed... although the total space was about 1900 sq ft... at night you could sleep under the covers with that unit ... in 100 degree heat yet... We could not afford the $20K quote the majority of installers wanted for this job... I thought it was outrageous... that did include ductwork... but still... we got by with a third of that... but now I'm quickly realizing you PAY for experience... the airflow for the house ductwork system is not the problem... it's something else and it's usually something really really simple

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    DFW -> Texas
    Posts
    446
    If you are trying to cool off the house that is twice the size the a/c was designed to handle then no it will not cool worth a damn.

    A/c can only cool the air a maximum of 20 degrees. So if its really hot in the house then its not going to cool worth a damn.

    So basically you need to know what the entering air temperature is to know what will come out. IF the air being pulled into the a/c is a 100 degrees then best you can get out is 80 degrees.

    Do you let the unit cool the house at night?

    You said something about no sheet rock on the rafters so what is separating up stairs and down stairs? Is up stairs sealed from the outside?

  9. #9
    Interesting Joker... first ... the house is designed with 2 systems ... one for the basement 1st and partial 2nd fl... the second for the third and partial 2nd... the system is not complete... the 2nd is not installed... however... i'm not concerned at this point with the 2nd and 3rd floors... There are 3 air returns / exchanges on the first floor and 2 on the 2nd... I've cut off the vents on the 2nd fl as well... the ceilings throughout the house are exposed to the joists where wood flooring separates each floor... each slat is close and tight... the 20 degree temp is acceptable... however I cannot get the system below 80 in hot weather... yes... at night the system should lower the interior temp to 72-73... it doesn't... it remains around 80 even though I have the thermostat set at 75... the air from the vents feels like the furnace blower and not ac... the system never cuts off... when it was first installed I felt a little cool... but that soon left

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    DFW -> Texas
    Posts
    446
    Quote Originally Posted by Gcon-densed View Post
    Interesting Joker... first ... the house is designed with 2 systems ... one for the basement 1st and partial 2nd fl... the second for the third and partial 2nd... the system is not complete... the 2nd is not installed... however... i'm not concerned at this point with the 2nd and 3rd floors... There are 3 air returns / exchanges on the first floor and 2 on the 2nd... I've cut off the vents on the 2nd fl as well... the ceilings throughout the house are exposed to the joists where wood flooring separates each floor... each slat is close and tight... the 20 degree temp is acceptable... however I cannot get the system below 80 in hot weather... yes... at night the system should lower the interior temp to 72-73... it doesn't... it remains around 80 even though I have the thermostat set at 75... the air from the vents feels like the furnace blower and not ac... the system never cuts off... when it was first installed I felt a little cool... but that soon left
    You need to get a good TD to know what its doing. You need to know what the temperature going into the returns is and what the temperature of the supply grills are. You can buy a really cheap thermometer. Leave it in the grills for 5 minutes to get a reasonable temperature. Do not leave the sheath on the thermometer probe because it will keep the air from touching the probe.

    Also is the outside unit kicking out hot air?

  11. #11
    "Also is the outside unit kicking out hot air?"

    No... the air coming from the unit is warm not hot like I'd expect... the refrigerant lines are both not cold... the copper (which is the hot)... nor the insulated is cold or frothing... I have some theories and being a complete novice at this... I thought
    1. The evaporator coil needs cleaning (the house is going under renovation and there is plenty of dust)... however the box is sealed on top of the furnace

    2. The R22 is not getting to the evaporator coil (although test gauging shows the levels inside the outside unit at acceptable 200)

    3. The condeser is not connected properly... but this would show also with the test gauging (I would assume)

    4. The drywall really does have that big of an effect... I don't understand how with all the walls being completely insulated and with vapor barriers

    5. The furnace blower is not large enough

    6. Like I said earlier... I don't expect the whole house to be cooled... but this thing won't even cool the first floor... My grandmother has a 220 window unit and it cools her entire first floor which is a bit larger than mine

    I'm not trying to make this a super unit and have unreasonable expectactions... but when an AC runs for several days without cutting off and you have to turn on a work-fan just to keep from sweating ... something is definitely wrong and I'm finding it hard to buy it's the walls

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    DFW -> Texas
    Posts
    446
    Quote Originally Posted by Gcon-densed View Post
    "Also is the outside unit kicking out hot air?"

    No... the air coming from the unit is warm not hot like I'd expect... the refrigerant lines are both not cold... the copper (which is the hot)... nor the insulated is cold or frothing... I have some theories and being a complete novice at this... I thought
    Well that says it all. Either the compressor is not working or you are low on freon.

  13. #13
    Thanks again Joker,
    The R22 was checked yesterday and was acceptable at 200... (I believe the range is between 200-250)... there were also no leaks detected... the compressor sounds bad to me as well... could the compressor have enough R22 and still be bad?
    I'll check more into this theory

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