Does any of the blended gases we use today; 404, 408, 409, 401, 134, ... do they separate, FRACTIONATE, under any circumstances?
I am posting this here to settle an arguement with a guy.
Please feel free to list you experience or knowledge. Also, if there is a gas I left out ... include it too.
Do you mean as they boil off in an evap (glide)?
If there is a leak?
How much is the bet?
Experience is what you have an hour after you need it.
I've yet to see it after thousands of pounds of leaks and top-offs.
In the begining of the new gas usage I was told of the horrors ahead ( sky is falling )....still waitng for an example.
Fractionation occurs mostly in zeotropic blends, it also occurs in azeotropic blends, such as R-410a, to a lesser extent.
though the possibilty of fractionation exists, it is extremely unlikely that any problems will surface
as R409 has the largest glide it would be the first
to fractionate (again unlikely to affect you)
years ago, I saw test results of simulating a 50%
leak 5 times in a row. Perfomance changed 3% (MP39)
I put MP39 in industrial buses, each bus leaked 20%
(actually 10 to 25%) per month. After 10 tears of topping
off - buses still doing well
Current ASHRE designations
R-5?? 5 indentifies it Azeotrope
Azeotrope - A mixture made up of two or more refrigerants
with similar boiling points that act as a single fluid.
The components of azeotropic mixtures will not separate
under normal operating conditions and can be charged as
a vapor or liquid.
R-4?? 4 indentifies it as Zeotrope
Zeotrope - A mixture made up of two or more refrigerants
with different boiling points. Zeotropic mixtures are
similar to near-azeotropic mixtures with the exception
of having a temperature glide greater than 10° F. Zeotropic
mixtures should be charged in the liquid state.
therefore all R-4?? are zeotrope blends
We had an HP80 rack blow half it's charge out the relief twice inside of a week, shortly after the conversion.
It did fractionate, which was confirmed ith testing by National's lab.
It was mean, nasty, and ugly once it came apart.
It was the only time I've seen one do this.
It's a long story, but it's on this forum somehere...
I also think they act different, small leaks affect the system more than the old stuff and require more attention.
So I say yes, what do I win?
Hey cockroach, don't bug me! ©
After losing and recharging literally thousands of pounds of gas (all types)in supermarket type systems (Hussman racks etc.) I've had no problems crop up. Keep your eye, closely, on the oil though. My local Copeland rep fessed up about the gas fractionation crisis and then went on to say most of what we were force fed about mixing oils is nonsense. I still won't mix POE with anything and I'm still a purist when it comes to any lubrication system, I rarely take chances . Copeland's 20, 30 & 40 hp discus don't need any encouragement to fail. These things should come with zippers.
Aint that the truth!!!
The discus is definitly a step backwards.
Originally posted by healingair
Copeland's 20, 30 & 40 hp discus don't need any encouragement to fail. These things should come with zippers.
To much work with too little time!!!!
This is why you wont see R4?? in flooded chillers or any flooded evap aplications. The fractionization is alot more prevelent in the evap to the point the gasses actualy seperate out. In DX aplications it doesnt seem to be an issue.
To much work with too little time!!!!
I have yet to see it have any negative impact if it does occur.
I will mix poe with any oil or gas and have never had a problem at all!
Thank y'all very much. This pretty much settles it for that arguement.
....DiceMan.... ya know that hat I wore on my website? I'll send you one of those for your contribution.... if you still want a prize for helping ....