Coleman Heat Exh. probs

[Chad711]

Recieved a video and info on the Coleman mobile home furnaces . I already knew they were a bad system, but mainly only in real cold climate like Minnesota. Exhaust probs take out the Pipe, and heat exc. (condensate issues)

So I watch this video tonight, what a a pain. Inspecting these units, and putting in a shield if they arent cracked, and installing a new one real pita if they are. Anyone else watch this video or hear about this. We are lining up the calls for this right now, looks like my next coupkle months are lined up. Oh well its work.

[i_got_ideas]

NO, but we sell Coleman mobile home units here in Iowa.

They have a problem even with the units that have the sheild. Where the shield is riveted to the Hx it rusts right there and I've even seen cracks starting from these rivets.

I'll have to do some checking on that issue though, work is work.

[simpleman]

I agree work is work but why even go that far if the fix is not the fix.

Just wonder why is there a condensate issue? Anyone checking
draft and stack temp to see whats going on?

[htg guy]

Chad! Are you saying that if you find a rivet broke off the shield in the heat exchanger, Coleman is now expecting us to replace just the sheild with new rivets instead of replacing the whole heat ex? I've changed out a total of three heat exchangers on Colemans. After the last one I decided to stop replacing them because they are such a pain. Trying to get the two pipes off the top of the heat exchanger are just too much of a pain in the ass. I now tell the customer that I will replace their entire unit with a new Miller furnace/roofjack. It should'nt take two people to change out any heat exchanger like it does with Colemans. Between fighting with their heat exchangers and their poor tech service, I gave up on them long ago.

[beenthere]

Chad711, are you talking about the 95 to 2000 units.

Evcon, Coleman, and Red T.

[i_got_ideas]

We just sent in the paperwork to do the remediation work today. There is hundreds of those Colemans around here but no remediation dealer, so we'll be the only.
Apparently mobile home owners are getting letters about it. I had a guy call today to see if we can do the work and I thought, hmmmmm I just saw something about that last night .
It looks like I'll be doing a lot of these jobs, yippie .

[MechAcc]

What's the Coleman Service Bulletin Number?

[Chad711]

Yes, these units have horrible condensing problems here in Minnesota, however Coleman/Intertherm/Nordyne whatever, denies it. Ive posted this in a few threads in the past, basically in cold areas like here, when its 0 out or colder, which it is most of the winter, the exhaust cannot get hot enough, and condenses down the pipe, into the heat exc. I have seen MANY 3-4 year old systems with rusted through exhaust, which causes lockout because of poor, moving around flame and missing the flame sensor.

I called them and the guys I have talked to say we have never seen/heard of this LOL. Right..

Anyways, this Video/paperwork stuff we recieved shows how to inspect, then if the heat exc. is cracked or distorted, REPLACE he Heat Exc. Get this, they pay for 3.5 hours of labor LMAO! They show a fella doing it (not installed in a room) like its easy. Its not, especially when you have to tear the roofjack off, which like I said is ALWAYS rusted here, and will usually be destroyed in he process. If they expect us to do this int he winter add another 1.5 hours to melt the roof lol.

Anyways, they will pay 1 HOUR for the "Upgrade" (lol is that possible) kit, for the ones that are not cracked or bulged. This requires pulling the from apart, setting these 3 "sields" in (pita) bolt them together, then change the orifice, which I would say 25% of them around here are so rusted in you need to take a hot wrench to em first of they will NOT come out. Then pull the blower Mtr, then the frame apart, put in some other shield, that has another limit swith, put it all back together. 1 HOUR! LMAO!

I talked with my service mgr, sure we will do this for the customer however I KNOW none of these will go in under that time. Sure I bet I could do one in under an hour, if I was looking at a NEW furnace sitting in a room, with all the srews rust free. They dont realize, at Coleman, that these units are framed around with NO clearances, usually you cant even GET at the 3 upper botls that you need to remove, to pull the exc, without removing the furnace.

I have no problems going out and doing this stuff, but they cant expect it to be done in 1 hour, or 3.5 for the changeout. Oh yeah they pay a $25 trip charge I guess I should add. What about the time on the phone, etc. Im expecting it to be at least 3 hours for the "upgrade" and 5-6 for the exc IF the roofjack isnt destroyed. And do you think the customer is going to want to pay $300 for a new roofjack? Uhh-Uhh...

[Chad711]

Originally posted by beenthere
Chad711, are you talking about the 95 to 2000 units.

Evcon, Coleman, and Red T.

Not sure, turned the paperwork back in at the shop. Ill find out tomorrow. I think the answer is Yes.

[Chad711]

Originally posted by i_got_ideas
We just sent in the paperwork to do the remediation work today. There is hundreds of those Colemans around here but no remediation dealer, so we'll be the only.
Apparently mobile home owners are getting letters about it. I had a guy call today to see if we can do the work and I thought, hmmmmm I just saw something about that last night .
It looks like I'll be doing a lot of these jobs, yippie .

What do you think about the time they will pay?

[Chad711]

Originally posted by MechAcc
What's the Coleman Service Bulletin Number?

Ill have to get if tomorrow...

[bb]

Originally posted by Chad711
Yes, these units have horrible condensing problems here in Minnesota, however Coleman/Intertherm/Nordyne whatever, denies it. Ive posted this in a few threads in the past, basically in cold areas like here, when its 0 out or colder, which it is most of the winter, the exhaust cannot get hot enough, and condenses down the pipe, into the heat exc. I have seen MANY 3-4 year old systems with rusted through exhaust, which causes lockout because of poor, moving around flame and missing the flame sensor.

I called them and the guys I have talked to say we have never seen/heard of this LOL. Right..

Anyways, this Video/paperwork stuff we recieved shows how to inspect, then if the heat exc. is cracked or distorted, REPLACE he Heat Exc. Get this, they pay for 3.5 hours of labor LMAO! They show a fella doing it (not installed in a room) like its easy. Its not, especially when you have to tear the roofjack off, which like I said is ALWAYS rusted here, and will usually be destroyed in he process. If they expect us to do this int he winter add another 1.5 hours to melt the roof lol.

Anyways, they will pay 1 HOUR for the "Upgrade" (lol is that possible) kit, for the ones that are not cracked or bulged. This requires pulling the from apart, setting these 3 "sields" in (pita) bolt them together, then change the orifice, which I would say 25% of them around here are so rusted in you need to take a hot wrench to em first of they will NOT come out. Then pull the blower Mtr, then the frame apart, put in some other shield, that has another limit swith, put it all back together. 1 HOUR! LMAO!

I talked with my service mgr, sure we will do this for the customer however I KNOW none of these will go in under that time. Sure I bet I could do one in under an hour, if I was looking at a NEW furnace sitting in a room, with all the srews rust free. They dont realize, at Coleman, that these units are framed around with NO clearances, usually you cant even GET at the 3 upper botls that you need to remove, to pull the exc, without removing the furnace.

I have no problems going out and doing this stuff, but they cant expect it to be done in 1 hour, or 3.5 for the changeout. Oh yeah they pay a $25 trip charge I guess I should add. What about the time on the phone, etc. Im expecting it to be at least 3 hours for the "upgrade" and 5-6 for the exc IF the roofjack isnt destroyed. And do you think the customer is going to want to pay $300 for a new roofjack? Uhh-Uhh...

Sounds like less time to completely changeout furnace and roofjack !

[i_got_ideas]

That's not what they told us!!!!!!

They said we get 1/2 hour and $25 per inspection....never said anything about taking off roof jack.

They did say the 1 hour for the upgrade and 3.5 hours for changing the heat exchanger though.

Either way it sounds like a losing proposition. We are going to do it though and hopefully it'll lead to a couple new unit sales.

I'll have to check on that roff jack thing, that sucks.

[i_got_ideas]

And who gets to pay for a new roof jack when you destroy the old one removing it?

[Chad711]

Well I did the "Upgrade" in shope today on a used furnace. Took about 1.75 hours on the first try. Forgot to bring home the #'s.

Hanging the shields was kinda a pain, and installing the shroud that has a manual reset limit is also kinda a pain. No way we will make money on this though, unless out rate was higher lol.

As for the heat exchanger, Im guessing 5 hours minimum IF the Exhaust stack is rust free, which I have yet to see on ANY of these furnaces in Minnesota... I have about 25 of these to do next week...I dont actually expect to find many or any that are cracked, I will tell ya if I do. Hope I dont at least !

[infwsdm]

Originally posted by MechAcc
What's the Coleman Service Bulletin Number?

the # I have is 888-665-4640

I called, the customer called, and no one called back.

[contactor]

Ive installed a lot of Colemans too.I still believe they should stay in the camping(lights stoves etc) industry. To be honest,I fight with thier stuff when I go camping too. Intertherm @ Miller arnt any better. One of the main reasons I dont own a mod/ mobile home.

[MechAcc]

The recall info is on pdf file at coleman's web site: http://www.colemanac.com/

[i_got_ideas]

I have 5 inspections scheduled already and people just now are starting to get thier letters. We are the only ones within 200 miles of our shop that can do this

I noticed that nothing is mentioned about rust......with condensation being the problem there should be something about that. I looked at one today that is rusty enough I think if I poked a screwdriver at it it would go through fairly easily.

And what's up with the stainless ring between the Hx and the cabinet? I haven't got the video yet so all I've seen is the PDF listed above....looks like a WHOLE bunch of fun

The times allowed.....I swear they had some super-tech do that like 20 times to get real good at it and then that's the time we're allowed. I know how things work for me, the stupid shields won't fit worth a damn or something .

Also, is there anything saying we can't.....do inspections now but then do the remediation say in January or Febuary when the rush of PMs is over?

[Edited by i_got_ideas on 09-25-2004 at 03:26 AM]

[Servicepro]

I am a participating dealer in western Canada.

The labour allowance for these upgrades I find is fair.
I would like to see a bit more for the travel, but I have been trying to group calls in common areas together so I can do less travel, so it can work.

I have been doing about 15 of these calls so far and they have gone well.

For the heat exchanger upgrade ( 3 stainless steel panels and aux. limit kit)
They take you just a little over 1 hr to do. And that includes furnace start up and check. ( Temp rise, man. pressure and static pressure check)

For complete heat exchanger replacement - they are quite easy- 3 hrs. They allow you 4 hrs so I make an extra hour.
Again that time includes the furnace start up and check.

I did have one with a rotted chimney - Sold the customer a new chimney and extension above and beyond.

Hope this helps

Servicepro