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  1. #1

    dealing with insurance adjuster

    Hey guys, I had an "interesting" talk today with an insurance adjuster for a customer of mine. The customers outdoor unit was damaged beyond repair in a hail storm and the indoor equipment is ancient. I gave the customer a quote to replace everything since we no longer have any R-22 equipment in Oklahoma. The adjuster asked why i would need to replace everything and i proceeded to tell him about the incapability of 410 with 22...gave him the whole spill. He then informed me that i was trying to rip of the insurance company and that he has experience as an hvac tech in Chicago and that there is way to install a...and these are his words...thermal expanding valve( i assume he is talking about and expansion valve) on the indoor coil, and install a 410 condensing unit on a old (1972) system. Did i miss the memo on this thing...has anyone heard of anyway to convert ANY existing r-22 coil. My understanding is once you go r-22 that's it.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by bjp537 View Post
    Insurance adjuster
    __________________________________________________ _______________________
    “Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards". - Vernon Law

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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by bjp537 View Post
    Hey guys, I had an "interesting" talk today with an insurance adjuster for a customer of mine. The customers outdoor unit was damaged beyond repair in a hail storm and the indoor equipment is ancient. I gave the customer a quote to replace everything since we no longer have any R-22 equipment in Oklahoma. The adjuster asked why i would need to replace everything and i proceeded to tell him about the incapability of 410 with 22...gave him the whole spill. He then informed me that i was trying to rip of the insurance company and that he has experience as an hvac tech in Chicago and that there is way to install a...and these are his words...thermal expanding valve( i assume he is talking about and expansion valve) on the indoor coil, and install a 410 condensing unit on a old (1972) system. Did i miss the memo on this thing...has anyone heard of anyway to convert ANY existing r-22 coil. My understanding is once you go r-22 that's it.
    I think that would require you to manufacture the equipment, it would then have to be tested by UL and listed inorder to be covered by the homeowners insurance, sounds like a trap to me, or something else like *rap.

    Jim

  4. #4
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    might try talking to a higher life form than that gooob


    or ask them to provide that information in writing





    and be sure that your customer understands that the adjuster is a dumbarse
    It`s better to be silent and thought the fool; than speak and remove all doubt.

  5. #5
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    Ask the Adjuster if they will Hold You Harmless from any future claims if you do what they "demand" and it is not HVAC Best Practices
    If the damaged unit is relatively new, and the efficiency is about the same, then the customer is not being "unjustly enriched".
    The refrigerant choice is not relevant. What is relevant is that the Adjuster is acting in BAD FAITH. Tell your customer to use those words (Bad Faith) directly and in a letter, they have special legal meaning in their business. These words mean there will be a next step if they aren't acting in a reasonable manner.
    For Instance, Ask the Adjuster if they think the State Insurance Commissioner agrees with their point of view. You'll be happy to call and ask them the question.
    If your replacement is more efficient then it would be fair to pay the difference in equipment cost. this might be a way for your customer to demonstrate GOOD FAITH.
    Give the Adjuster a face saving opportunity.

  6. #6
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    Inform him that there would be no AHRI rating on the system.
    And that the manufacturer could void warranty down the road because of it not being a matched system.

    Ask him to provide papers with his signature, that the indoor coil is approved by UL to be used with R410A. Or to put in writing on his companies letter head that he approved the coil for use with R410A. And that it is safe at the higher pressures.

    As for the ability to reuse an R22 indoor coil with R410A. You can flush out the coil. And then use it. But it takes a little time to make sure the mineral oil is out of it.

    Some companies have rated their old R22 coils as compatible with R410A

    He's an adjuster. Its his job to keep cost down.
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  7. #7
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    How about the pressure diff? That might make him pause.

  8. #8
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    I wouldn't even talk to him after that conversation. I'd simply advise my customer of the facts. You are simply NOT going to install his condenser with out replacing the indoor unit...period.

    I could care less what he says or what he's going to write on his letterhead releasing me of any liability. It's the wrong thing to do and you should'nt do it.
    “Your biggest risk is not taking one..."

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by bjones View Post
    I wouldn't even talk to him after that conversation. I'd simply advise my customer of the facts. You are simply NOT going to install his condenser with out replacing the indoor unit...period.

    I could care less what he says or what he's going to write on his letterhead releasing me of any liability. It's the wrong thing to do and you should'nt do it.
    sounds like the best plan. Good for you and good for the customer. After all, whats the primary business of insurance companies.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by bjones View Post
    I wouldn't even talk to him after that conversation. I'd simply advise my customer of the facts. You are simply NOT going to install his condenser with out replacing the indoor unit...period.

    I could care less what he says or what he's going to write on his letterhead releasing me of any liability. It's the wrong thing to do and you should'nt do it.
    Ok. You would walk from the job. When the customer said. That they can't afford to replace the indoor unit/coil themselves. And will just call another contractor to do the condenser swap out.

    And then when that customer has no problem. And a neighbor ask who to use for a new system or service. That customer will say not you. You tried to rip them off.

    Not saying its the right thing to do. But, it is being done. And its working.
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  11. #11
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    Point is his job as adjuster is to limit his company's expense and liability. He wouldn't or couldn't do anything except let you do the job correctly. If you leave it open he4 just may get fiesty and delay payment or complicate things. That's why you need to have a meeting of the minds. The insurance company makes money by delaying payments as well.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
    Ok. You would walk from the job. When the customer said. That they can't afford to replace the indoor unit/coil themselves. And will just call another contractor to do the condenser swap out.

    And then when that customer has no problem. And a neighbor ask who to use for a new system or service. That customer will say not you. You tried to rip them off.

    Not saying its the right thing to do. But, it is being done. And its working.
    I agree! I lost a job not long ago because I would not do a partial change out, they called someone else. I really need to stop reading so many Pro's bias opinions here, on what they would do. I personally feel there has not been enough time lapse, since the 410A explosion to really get any "factual" feedback. I think a lot of Pro's are just stereotyping what they read and really have no proof. Come back in a few years and lets see how the partial swaps are doing, my guess is, they will still be trucking. I will say because of reading here, we have always done the total coil and condenser swap, guess I am just gun shy, but I would Love to see some "real" facts.
    __________________________________________________ _______________________
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    "Never let success go to your head, and never let failure go to your heart". - Unknown

  13. #13
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    Swampfox has atleast 2 of these types of swamp outs.

    There are apartment complexes, where there maint depts, are only changing out the condensers. They aren't blowing up coils.
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