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  1. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Mid-Tenn
    Posts
    34
    A local salesman told me he sold 8 - R-22 dry condensers to a contractor for some old condos, the next day, the contractor sent a guy in the buy some R-410a.

    Later he ask the contractor how the units were working, he said better than the old ones.

    Said he put 410 in all those dry R-22 condensers in May of this year and they're still cooling.

    Now how can that be ?

  2. #28
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    2,387
    I think the chance of being able to get away with HCFC in POE is better than HFC in MO

    IIRC, POE is pretty much usable with any coolerant.

  3. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    6,061
    Question I have is would that system be able to handle the higher operating pressures of R410a ?

  4. #30
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    527
    A farmer that I help outA/C on tractors, combines, and various other duties and repairs) called a while back. His home unit was down and needed some "freezon". When he called he was getting ready to gas it with some leakstop 134A. Glad he called me I told him the condensing unit would shoot off into space like a rocket and his home would burn down. He still believes that will happen I will not tell him any different. Now if I could get him to believe that 10lbs of 134A in a 4850 John Deere does not make it cool any better.

  5. #31
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Western KY
    Posts
    1,221
    Wouldn't think a PT chart would help much. Once you mix them they become something different. No way to know what the heck your SST or SCT are so can't set TXV. Not saying it won't cool, obviously it does, but most cars will run on alcohol for a time as well.

  6. #32
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Tulsa
    Posts
    280
    what an interesting topic ... no it's not a good idea, but what do you do when you find a unit marked with all sorts of different refrigerants?

    no telling what's inside. even if one evacuates current charge, then refill with single refrigerant. one still doesn't know if prior charge contaminated oil, etc.

  7. #33
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Western PA
    Posts
    25,395
    Quote Originally Posted by cy View Post
    what an interesting topic ... no it's not a good idea, but what do you do when you find a unit marked with all sorts of different refrigerants?

    no telling what's inside. even if one evacuates current charge, then refill with single refrigerant. one still doesn't know if prior charge contaminated oil, etc.
    Are you implying that a typical refrigerant charge ALONE can contaminate oil?

    I'm curious as to the mechanism behind that.

  8. #34
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    bedford ind
    Posts
    1,088
    Quote Originally Posted by cy View Post
    what an interesting topic ... no it's not a good idea, but what do you do when you find a unit marked with all sorts of different refrigerants?

    no telling what's inside. even if one evacuates current charge, then refill with single refrigerant. one still doesn't know if prior charge contaminated oil, etc.
    '

    No problem! Just mix your oils! Let's see, there's uh...,canola oil, coconut oil ,corn oil, veggy oil, peanut oil....( no, allergies,)... and uh... oh yeah, there's Olive Oyle!

  9. #35
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Kaufman county, Texas
    Posts
    9,959
    Quote Originally Posted by Executioner View Post
    Ok guys and gals... I KNOW it ain't right or what's taught or what they say ain't comtatible (so they say) HOWEVER!

    I have come across units that have been marked by passed tech's "R-12/134A/409/hotshot.mix. And are working fine after I repaired a small leak and partially recharged with what I had on hand (134a).

    I've also used R22 instead of 404a to get a WI freezer running after fixing a leak, havn't had to go back in 6 months and used 3lbs on a 8lb system.

    The equipment,refrigerant,oil and other manufacturers adamantly proclaim that they WON'T mix but they will.

    Now before you get your panties in a bunch! I don't do this all the time as a general practice, but only in a pinch. If the system pulls down to temp. then I leave it at that.


    you can get as technical as you want but, R12,134a,409,hotshot,and a few others ALL have REALY close head pressure.. and the bottom line is protecting the compressor. R 502,404a,r22...ect are the same.


    NO they are not intercomtatible with P.O.E. oil and Mineral oil. I know this but if it's a mix then as long as the majority is oil compatible it will work. Reduce performance and life???? maybe.


    My proof I recently came across a 1 door upright freezer that was to be scrapped,marked 404a, The comp. worked so I fixed the evap. leaks and weighed in the 16 oz charge of as equal parts I could of 134a,404a,22,409a.

    and also some recovered witches brew

    Well it reached -10 F in 45 min. from 80 F.

    Hmm?

    Now let the beatings begin. (no I didn't make this up to provoke you guys...)
    I have made my own mix for a walk-in box, but you have to understand that it was a medium temp coil, high temp condenser, and stuff like that. Nothing was matched and they wanted to run it as a low temp application. Seriously a disaster from the beginning, there were some other issues but I got it working with my own special blend of r-22 / r-12 components which was basically a 502 system when I finished. I added as needed to make my pressures go where I wanted them, it worked, but you could basically throw your pressure/temp chart out the window by the time I had finished.
    "You boys are really making this thing harder than it has to be". Me

    "Who ARE you people? And WHAT are you doing in my SWAMP!?" Shrek

    Service calls submitted after 3PM will be posted the next business day.

    I give free estimates [Wild Ass Guesses] over the phone.

    "I am sorry for interrupting, please continue with your quarreling" Some chick on TV

  10. #36
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Tulsa
    Posts
    280
    Quote Originally Posted by jpsmith1cm View Post
    Are you implying that a typical refrigerant charge ALONE can contaminate oil?

    I'm curious as to the mechanism behind that.
    nope... I was asking ... so if I'm reading correctly. it's not possible for a wrong charge alone to contaminate oils?

  11. #37
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Kaufman county, Texas
    Posts
    9,959
    Quote Originally Posted by mark beiser View Post
    Out of all the dumb threads on this forum, this one is up there with the worst.
    You have obviously not visited the "insulation wusses" thread,
    "You boys are really making this thing harder than it has to be". Me

    "Who ARE you people? And WHAT are you doing in my SWAMP!?" Shrek

    Service calls submitted after 3PM will be posted the next business day.

    I give free estimates [Wild Ass Guesses] over the phone.

    "I am sorry for interrupting, please continue with your quarreling" Some chick on TV

  12. #38
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Coastal Maine
    Posts
    808
    Alright. I have been reading this thread from the beginning and am ready to make my opinion known.

    As JP stated very early, you wouldn't do this on a 1,000 lb system. That is where the two distinct branches of our trade differ. It is one thing to do this on some reach-in or walk-in that holds less than a lb of charge. But there is no way that I would do this on some of the larger HVAC systems that we work on. No way I am going to try and explain how we damaged something on a system with $25K worth of refrig in it.

  13. #39
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Toronto Canada
    Posts
    1,090
    I have read this from the start and think that making a "Cocktail" Is dumb and unneeded. I can see the just a little bit when in a pinch. But to do it and Brag about it EPA anyone????

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