Home Depot AC/Furnance Install Oversized

[Rhizzlebop]

Wow, nice.

Well, that kinda tells me what I suspected to begin with. Those guys freaked out when you first said you wanted a unit sized to the load. They played it cool and calm trying to sweet talk you into keeping the massive beast and letting them F around with some ductwork. When you didn't fall for that, they are now freaking out again and decided to cut you off.

What happened? They stop returning your calls, or HD called you saying the contractor was bailing?

Whoever said, sign a waiver to your specifications is an idiot. If you or any homeowner signs a waiver that says, "Contractor installed a unit to the size I (homeowner) asked for and you're no longer liable" would be a fool.

Now, one that says, unit installed and sized according to Manual J calculations which reflect xx/xx outdoor design conditions according to ASHRAE 2007 design data and indoor air conditions set at xx degrees F and xx% RH according to ASHRAE 55 indoor air quality design standards, THEN you might be talking.

Blue, reread the above paragraph. It would be very important for me personally to see referenced standards in whatever waiver I signed. Otherwise, those F--Ls could come install that 4 ton blower and crank it up on that 3 ton condenser and when your leaving air temp is over 60 and its not dehumidifying, they can say, well, thats what you wanted, you signed the waiver.

No Sir. Ashrae defines all those conditions. I'm certain they in fact define indoor air design temp to be 75 and 55% RH +/- 5%.

You gotta get an opinion on that manual J OR another Manual J done.

[drewski11]

All,

Communication has broken down. Home Depot has notified me of two options that they will agree to with their contractor.

1. Keep the 5 ton and get additional duct work.

Or

2. Force them to downsize to a unit of my specifications and sign a waiver they are not responsible for the performance in my exiting duct work. Home Depot will provide a refund.

Please let me know someone that will do a Manual J, S, D you can recommend in the Tracy, Stockton area.

Thanks
Bluelogic

it sounded like your BPI auditer did some kind of sizing to say that after fixes you'd be at 2 tons? did he do a Man J to come up with that?

[pstu]

that was mearly a metaphor to show you, you may not be as "NORMAL" as you might "THINK" you are



.

Air, it's been a long time since I thought I was normal<g>.

Regards -- Pstu

[bluelogic]

drewski11,

It is an estimate. He is not a certified HVAC tech. He uses a HVAC program.

Rhizzlebop,

HD called contractor is bailing. HD requires the waiver so I don't ask for them to reverse the decision or change my mind because the system does not meet my needs. For example if I wanted the 2 ton they would do it, but they don't want me comming back to have them change it later.

HD said I should have a third party do a Manaul J. D and S

Thanks
Bluelogic

[Rhizzlebop]

I can understand HD wanting a waiver. However, I'd push to get technical wording in the waiver referencing standards.

Someone here will probably be able to direct you to someone to do the calcs. When they do, ask that person what reference standards he's using to determine indoor and outdoor design temps, and then tell HD you want those referenced in the waiver.

[pstu]

Hate to say this, but I wonder if it is not the time to get a lawyer involved. That waiver I think is a document with legal importance.

Hope this helps -- Pstu

[ibis1]

HD is trying to put the ball in your court which will let them off the hook for any short comings with their "final' resolution. Either way you will be holding the bag. Tell them to remove all equipment and return all monies and start over. Otherwise you will not win this battle, because if you sign that wavier their responsibility for your comfort or the system performance goes out the window. ibis1

[bluelogic]

ibis1,

Is an HVAC person responsible if they install an oversized unit that the customer asked for and changed their mind. The contractor says they want some protection the owner mention "sized to homeowner's specifications" written in the contract. The contractor believes Manaul J does not provide comfort; however, they will still honor my warranty.

My wife's father is over here right now and we are doing our own Manaul J. I'll post the result.

Do I get a second tax return for having a new AC system installed =) ha ha

Thanks
Bluelogic

[bluelogic]

All,

Anyone know if inner garage door walls consider interior walls?

Thanks
Bluelogic

[beenthere]

Partition wall.

[Rhizzlebop]

A garage wall adjacent to a room in the house is considered an unconditioned partition. Its not the same as an exterior wall but its certainly not an interior partition either.

[Airmechanical]

HD is trying to put the ball in your court which will let them off the hook for any short comings with their "final' resolution. Either way you will be holding the bag. Tell them to remove all equipment and return all monies and start over. Otherwise you will not win this battle, because if you sign that wavier their responsibility for your comfort or the system performance goes out the window. ibis1

now here is a guy with a good plan


.

[bluelogic]

Here you go.

My measurements were not perfect. I only measured 1,973 square feet out of 2,100. I used HVAC Calc

Design Conditions: Stockton
Indoor: Outdoor:
Summer temperature: 75 Summer temperature: 97
Winter temperature: 72 Winter temperature: 30
Relative humidity: 50 Summer grains of moisture: 58
Daily temperature range: High

Assumption : No blinds or window coverings on all the windows

Sensible Gain : 36,124 BTUH
Latent Gain : 3,450 BTUH
Total Heat Gain : 39,574 BTUH 3.5 Ton
Total Heat Loss : 31,496 BTUH

Duct Sizing Tool shows : 1707 CFM

Thanks
Bluelogic

[b26440510]

Being one that just recently got rid of a contractor and made them rip everything out they put in (ducts & furnace) I'd probably suggest that route now.

If you do that, they need to make you whole, that is, you are at the place you were before they did any work.

Keep in mind though, that new contractors you get out to bid may be a bit wary of doing work for someone that just threw a contractor out and made them remove the stuff they installed.

[beenthere]

According to the load calc you posted. With your current 2.5 ton unit. Your house was hotter then 85° inside when it was 97 outside.

So was it?

[bluelogic]

Beenthere,

No I used an assumption no window coverings or blinds. It was 82 downstairs.

[beenthere]

Did you include all of your improvements your making/made.

Why would anyone leave all the blinds open. Just increases the cooling bill needlessly.

What infiltration rate did you use?


PS: Your load calc as posted. Shows a 4 ton would struggle to meet your sensible load. I think you left lots of fudge in it.

[bluelogic]

beenthere,

It said to take the blinds off in the HVAC Calc software. It mentions that some people like to have the sun come in the summer for natural light. I used the automatic ACH. I did not include any improvements.

Thanks
Bluelogic

[beenthere]

If you were figuring out for someone that does like to leave the blinds open. You would do that, and remind the people that it is foolish to do that.

So do you leave the blinds open.

Do the load calc with blinds, and with the improvements. Or you will be nicely oversized. And have lots of nice high humidity in your house.

[bluelogic]

BeenThere,

Just with adding blinds on every window in the software.

Sensible Gain : 28,984
Latent Gain : 3,450
Total Heat Gain : 32,434 2.5 Tons
Total Heat Loss : 31,496

Thanks
Bluelogic