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  1. #27
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    Nov 2000
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    Eastern PA
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    68,973
    Originally posted by maxac
    I stopped using goodman when a tech. told me to put a 1/4 inch washer under the burner ass. to properly direct the flame into the extanger. Also had a lot of small component recalls within 1 year. JUNK if you ask me. Amana not so bad in my book.
    Sounds like you don't like doing things according to instructions. Those washers come with the propane conversion kit and are for directing the heavier propane gas upward slightly. Other manufacturers redirect propane installations in other ways but this is still an industry standard.

    If you really have an issue, state it. Otherwise, just making rude brand bashing remarks about a brand of equipment is very unprofessional and makes it seem like you do not know much about the HVAC industry.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  2. #28
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    16
    [

    Sounds like you don't like doing things according to instructions. Those washers come with the propane conversion kit and are for directing the heavier propane gas upward slightly. Other manufacturers redirect propane installations in other ways but this is still an industry standard.

    If you really have an issue, state it. Otherwise, just making rude brand bashing remarks about a brand of equipment is very unprofessional and makes it seem like you do not know much about the HVAC industry. [/B]
    Who said anything about a convesion? This was a 90 % nat. gas FAU and I always follow manurfacture instructions I had to call goodman tech. support for this fix and they addmited design defect. Goodman is the second largest manurfacture of H/ac equipment in the world and also the most " ECONOMICIAL " after my 2 years with them I choose to no longer distribute their eqipment.

  3. #29
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    2,652
    Originally posted by maxac
    [

    Sounds like you don't like doing things according to instructions. Those washers come with the propane conversion kit and are for directing the heavier propane gas upward slightly. Other manufacturers redirect propane installations in other ways but this is still an industry standard.

    If you really have an issue, state it. Otherwise, just making rude brand bashing remarks about a brand of equipment is very unprofessional and makes it seem like you do not know much about the HVAC industry.
    Who said anything about a convesion? This was a 90 % nat. gas FAU and I always follow manurfacture instructions I had to call goodman tech. support for this fix and they addmited design defect. Goodman is the second largest manurfacture of H/ac equipment in the world and also the most " ECONOMICIAL " after my 2 years with them I choose to no longer distribute their eqipment.
    [/B]
    Well if you like Amana you may want to give Goodman another chance. I finally got one of the GMS furnaces 2 days ago. You'd probally be amazed and you should pick the line up before you find yourself competeing against it.
    There are 3 ways to do anything in life; Good, Fast, Slow: You can pick any 2.

  4. #30
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
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    Don't even try IGI, guys like maxac have their minds made up and facts won't change a thing.

    No one at Goodman ever stated that there was a design flaw in any burners. Maybe maxac spoke to someone in a distributor or maybe he misunderstood but those words did not come from any Goodman employee. How do I know? Because it is not true for one thing. For another, no manufacturers rep will make such a statement. The first thing manufacture reps are taught is to stick to the script and never claim fault unless their is a bulletin stating so.

    Again, there has never been a manufacturing flaw of Goodman burners. The older style burners were a bit contakerous under some adverse conditions but even that was not a manufacturers flaw.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  5. #31
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Posts
    63
    Robo,

    Are you still going to try to find why the difference in efficiency between the Goodman and the Amana?

  6. #32
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
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    Originally posted by holabr
    Robo,

    Are you still going to try to find why the difference in efficiency between the Goodman and the Amana?
    Having looked them over I can only give an estimated guess. The single stage furnaces for both the Amana and the Goodman line have the identical 93% rating.

    The two stage with variable speed furnaces are what are different. The Amana ranges from 96% to 95.5% while the Goodman ratings are 93% across the board.

    Since the heat exchangers are not the difference, as proved out in the single stage units, I am assuming it is the gas valves that are causing the variations.

    Either that or the Goodman line has not bothered to have specific ratings done and is using the low base rating that is applicable for all furnaces.

    If you look at the output of the Goodman vs. the output of the Amana the Amana output is consistantly higher. That is until you check out the LP output which is about the same.

    So, as for now, my best guess is that the gas valve and ignition systems are the differences in the two brands as far as efficiency is concerned.

    I need to see a breakdown of each component to know whether or not different gas valves, IDBs etc are at work here.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  7. #33
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    2,652
    Originally posted by RoBoTeq
    Originally posted by holabr
    Robo,

    Are you still going to try to find why the difference in efficiency between the Goodman and the Amana?
    Having looked them over I can only give an estimated guess. The single stage furnaces for both the Amana and the Goodman line have the identical 93% rating.

    The two stage with variable speed furnaces are what are different. The Amana ranges from 96% to 95.5% while the Goodman ratings are 93% across the board.

    Either that or the Goodman line has not bothered to have specific ratings done and is using the low base rating that is applicable for all furnaces.

    I like the fact that they reached the 93% because that gets our customers another $50 rebate over the 92.6% of the GMNT.
    I think you are right(speculation) about the not bothering to test the ratings on the Goodman 2 stage. I say this because if they had I'd expect to see a range of percentages as seen in the Amana line.
    Chances are the true efficiencies os the Goodman 2 stage is close to the same as the Amana 2 stage. Even with the difference in the gas valve, 3.5"w.c. is 3.5" no matter what valve it flows through. If they use the same style heat exchanger there should be similar efficiencies since there is identical amounts of gas being consumed. There may be some differences electrically within the ignition system but as far as fuel consumption....
    the one difference could be if stainless steel rejects it's heat more efficiently than aluminized steel. If that's the case the Goodman 2 stage efficiencies if tested should look more like 94.5 - 95%.
    Get my drift? Or am I nuts?
    There are 3 ways to do anything in life; Good, Fast, Slow: You can pick any 2.

  8. #34
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    Apr 2003
    Location
    Iowa
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    Here I go again with some more "over-thinking"


    Would it be cheaper to have stainless steel heat exchangers in Goodman furnaces too?

    Yes, they are saving $X.XX on material but if they went to all stainless they could shut down the aluminized steel production line and put 1/3rd of those people on the stainless line to make up the difference.

    I gotta go to bed

    There are 3 ways to do anything in life; Good, Fast, Slow: You can pick any 2.

  9. #35
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    33
    Amana vs. Goodman

    Amana:
    409 SS heat exchangers
    Best h ex. warranty in the industry
    Nitride igniters
    Different ventor motor
    Front Door

    Previous post regarding High's built in Ten. while
    Mid's in Texas is accurate. Goodman will NEVER go
    SS in heat exchangers for a few reasons....price,
    and if they ever did, why have Amana? To be Carrier/
    Bryant? No point. Amana is boasted as the high end
    of the family and the plan is to keep it that way!

    Goodman OWNS Amana HVAC, as previously posted. Maytag
    owns white goods. I think that pretty much does it.

    As for Goodmans 2-stage high, it has to be tested and
    rated. All furnaces, if you want to get certification,
    Energy Star ratings, etc, HAVE to be tested.

  10. #36
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    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
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    All correct info thighway.

    However, while the furnaces must be tested and must be "at least" as efficient as is stated on the name plate, they do not have to have exact ratings as long as the established rating is lower than actual.

    Goodman is noted for never having been called down for overrating their product. This is why you see so many across the board ratings on Goodman products. It costs money to specifically rate each variation of system or furnace individually so Goodman takes the highest number that will cover every furnace or system and uses that as the rating.

    Goodman equipment and systems are usually a bit more efficient than they are rated. A good point to note on this is why Goodman condensing units using TXVs have the same rating as those that use fixed orifice. We know the TXV system is more efficient. Goodman simply did not have these systems individually rated for the difference.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  11. #37
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    33
    If having to do a test to confirm a 92 or 93% model, it would cost no more money to confirm a 94 or 95% rating.

    Also, AC SEER ratings are generalized based on several different coils that can be used. For example, the Goodman 12 SEER may be a 12 SEER with the Goodman coil w/ TXV on it, but only 11 or 11.5 with a regular coil. Goodman has a series of charts, just like the Amana and Carrier ones I possess, that will distinguish between various coils, and blowers as a matter of fact (a variable speed blower will also raise SEER rating).

  12. #38
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    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
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    Originally posted by thighway
    If having to do a test to confirm a 92 or 93% model, it would cost no more money to confirm a 94 or 95% rating.

    Also, AC SEER ratings are generalized based on several different coils that can be used. For example, the Goodman 12 SEER may be a 12 SEER with the Goodman coil w/ TXV on it, but only 11 or 11.5 with a regular coil. Goodman has a series of charts, just like the Amana and Carrier ones I possess, that will distinguish between various coils, and blowers as a matter of fact (a variable speed blower will also raise SEER rating).
    Not true. It is less costly to rate the lowest efficiency system and applying that rating to all systems that are at least that efficient and better. Goodman has practiced this system before and is most likely doing the same now to reduce costs.

    Unlike the other manufacturers, when Goodman states a unit is a 12 SEER, it is at least a 12 SEER and may be more efficient with other components. No other manufacturer rates their equipment this way.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  13. #39
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    2,652
    Originally posted by RoBoTeq
    Originally posted by thighway
    If having to do a test to confirm a 92 or 93% model, it would cost no more money to confirm a 94 or 95% rating.

    Also, AC SEER ratings are generalized based on several different coils that can be used. For example, the Goodman 12 SEER may be a 12 SEER with the Goodman coil w/ TXV on it, but only 11 or 11.5 with a regular coil. Goodman has a series of charts, just like the Amana and Carrier ones I possess, that will distinguish between various coils, and blowers as a matter of fact (a variable speed blower will also raise SEER rating).
    Not true. It is less costly to rate the lowest efficiency system and applying that rating to all systems that are at least that efficient and better. Goodman has practiced this system before and is most likely doing the same now to reduce costs.

    Unlike the other manufacturers, when Goodman states a unit is a 12 SEER, it is at least a 12 SEER and may be more efficient with other components. No other manufacturer rates their equipment this way.
    It's real fun trying to explain that to customers too I found. I told a customer that there is little difference between the Goodman I quoted and the Amana my competitor quoted, for less $$ BTW. I explained the differences in our installation quality and the importance of that, she understood the price difference then. Then the customer asked why if there is virtually no difference why is the Amana more efficient than the Goodman, that took about 20 minutes to explain but I think they understood. I collected the down payment and they're getting a new GMS9070 next week .
    There are 3 ways to do anything in life; Good, Fast, Slow: You can pick any 2.

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