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  1. #27
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    333
    Quote Originally Posted by york56 View Post
    I found this on Trane comfortsite.com
    Thank you sir is much appreciated I am still waiting for our point of contact to set me up in the system.
    My Graham I truly am sorry that my lack of competence is for lack of a better words insulting to you. It really isnt for lack of trying, I have spent a huge amount of money and time investing in myself. Mainly because i absolutely love this trade. As a young apprentice around A very good mechanic ex Trane by the way was doing a Tear down . I begged my boss to let me take a week off with no pay just so i could be in on the tear down. Being Young at the time i didnt understand why I couldnt. When i was coming up we had a few big machine men, and it was extremely hard to get teamed up with one of them.
    95 I paid all expenses to go to carrier Centrifugal fundamental and the following week the tear down class. Very expensive courses especially the tear down add in the cost of 2 weeks lost wages, hotels , food , transportation. For a poor 5 year apprentice that was a lot of money.
    In honesty it did open up some doors. As the years go on i try to pick a technical school a year, most of the time the company will meet me 1/2 way or pick up the majority of the tab. I have completed the York Step program,
    Does this make me a master Technician ? Not Even close........ But anyone who has completed the York step program or started it knows its a Huge personal time commitment.
    Sorry to rant but the more i thought about Mr Grahams post, the more i realized just how truly disrespectful it was.
    I Was hoping this place was a place to Learn share information and grow,
    If i am wrong please explain?

  2. #28
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    333
    Quote Originally Posted by Chiller Guy View Post
    How is a man to know the torque values and seal/bearing measurements without some info? Even if you have done a dozen of them you probably cannot remember all those numbers along with every thing about other brands and styles you may work on. We would not let a tech lead a teardown until he had done 3 as a helper and the third one was his "check ride" as lead tech. He was also provided with all the literature that we could secure on the unit.

    When/if you do this tear down a PVC is pretty straight forward as you will see. The suction cover and volute will hang at weird angles when pulled off but are manageable. Measure and record ALL seals and bearings as you come apart and a digital camera would be a great aid in documenting the conditions you find.
    I appreciate your input and help A digital camera will be a must for me.
    I do appreciate all the support from everyone

  3. #29
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Somewhere in the world.
    Posts
    1,596
    Here are a few more that will be helpfull I have much more if you need .
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Arguing with your Boss is like wrestling with a pig in
    mud.
    After a while you realize that while you are getting
    dirty, the pig is actually enjoying it.

    It is not exactly cheating, I prefer to consider it
    creative problem solving.

    25 years ago we had Bob Hope , Steve Jobs , and Johnny Cash today we have no Hope no Jobs and no Cash !
    I can fix broke but i can't fix stupid !

  4. #30
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Somewhere in the world.
    Posts
    1,596
    Here are some more of interest that you should have to.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Arguing with your Boss is like wrestling with a pig in
    mud.
    After a while you realize that while you are getting
    dirty, the pig is actually enjoying it.

    It is not exactly cheating, I prefer to consider it
    creative problem solving.

    25 years ago we had Bob Hope , Steve Jobs , and Johnny Cash today we have no Hope no Jobs and no Cash !
    I can fix broke but i can't fix stupid !

  5. #31
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    400
    Quote Originally Posted by pringlel View Post
    Thank you sir is much appreciated I am still waiting for our point of contact to set me up in the system.
    My Graham I truly am sorry that my lack of competence is for lack of a better words insulting to you. It really isnt for lack of trying, I have spent a huge amount of money and time investing in myself. Mainly because i absolutely love this trade. As a young apprentice around A very good mechanic ex Trane by the way was doing a Tear down . I begged my boss to let me take a week off with no pay just so i could be in on the tear down. Being Young at the time i didnt understand why I couldnt. When i was coming up we had a few big machine men, and it was extremely hard to get teamed up with one of them.
    95 I paid all expenses to go to carrier Centrifugal fundamental and the following week the tear down class. Very expensive courses especially the tear down add in the cost of 2 weeks lost wages, hotels , food , transportation. For a poor 5 year apprentice that was a lot of money.
    In honesty it did open up some doors. As the years go on i try to pick a technical school a year, most of the time the company will meet me 1/2 way or pick up the majority of the tab. I have completed the York Step program,
    Does this make me a master Technician ? Not Even close........ But anyone who has completed the York step program or started it knows its a Huge personal time commitment.
    Sorry to rant but the more i thought about Mr Grahams post, the more i realized just how truly disrespectful it was.
    I Was hoping this place was a place to Learn share information and grow,
    If i am wrong please explain?
    I hear ya I have been trying for years to break into the big work for years and was half way thru step program when it was cut off by JCI . I'm trusted to do seasonals and emergency service calls but no teardowns so far . It seems you just have to hit it right as an apprentice or your out of luck . Or just say I'll get the manual and just do it .
    is this really happening or not

  6. #32
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    ottawa canada
    Posts
    2,022
    Ok so maybe I was a little harsh in my response to his question but heres why . This site is set up to help other guys in the trenches .
    It seems that every other post is a post with someone with their hand out looking for a manual for this that or the other piece of equpment .
    Every maufacturer has a site and all the info needed can be found there if you take the time and energy to look. Yes some of them are harder than others but with patience and possibly some leg work you can get what you need .
    The info I have accumulated over my years in the trade was found using this method .
    So why should I and others constantly spoon feed people who just put their hand out , do the research do the leg work and find the info yourself .
    Anyone can put their hand out and ask for something but you will get far more respect from others if you look ,find and research things for yourself .
    The 64 roars to life Whoo hoo ...shes a rolling chassis .
    You bend em" I"ll mend em" !!!!!!!
    I"m not a service tech.. I"m a thermodynamic transfer analyst & strategic system sustainability specialist
    Best Austin Healey In Show twice in 2013 .....All those hrs paid off .

  7. #33
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    333
    Quote Originally Posted by york56 View Post
    Here are some more of interest that you should have to.
    Wow thank you very generous of you sir

  8. #34
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    333
    Quote Originally Posted by double bubble View Post
    I hear ya I have been trying for years to break into the big work for years and was half way thru step program when it was cut off by JCI . I'm trusted to do seasonals and emergency service calls but no teardowns so far . It seems you just have to hit it right as an apprentice or your out of luck . Or just say I'll get the manual and just do it .
    The step program left a bad taste with most people after they put in all that time. Alot of the records when moved from york got lost. Now I think they have a mile stone program or atleast they used too.

  9. #35
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Central Texas
    Posts
    627
    Quote Originally Posted by graham View Post
    Ok so maybe I was a little harsh in my response to his question but heres why . This site is set up to help other guys in the trenches .
    It seems that every other post is a post with someone with their hand out looking for a manual for this that or the other piece of equpment .
    Every maufacturer has a site and all the info needed can be found there if you take the time and energy to look. Yes some of them are harder than others but with patience and possibly some leg work you can get what you need . The info I have accumulated over my years in the trade was found using this method .
    So why should I and others constantly spoon feed people who just put their hand out , do the research do the leg work and find the info yourself .
    Anyone can put their hand out and ask for something but you will get far more respect from others if you look ,find and research things for yourself .
    Not all the info. is on the websites. Certain bulletins & overhaul manuals you ain't gettin' on-line. Now is there stuff floatin' around the internet? Sure. But to direct someone to the manufacturers websites for ALL the info. you need wouldn't be true.
    Sic Semper Tyrannis.

  10. #36
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Dixiana, AL
    Posts
    2,609
    Quote Originally Posted by graham View Post
    Ok so maybe I was a little harsh in my response to his question but heres why . This site is set up to help other guys in the trenches .
    It seems that every other post is a post with someone with their hand out looking for a manual for this that or the other piece of equpment .
    Every maufacturer has a site and all the info needed can be found there if you take the time and energy to look. Yes some of them are harder than others but with patience and possibly some leg work you can get what you need .
    The info I have accumulated over my years in the trade was found using this method .
    So why should I and others constantly spoon feed people who just put their hand out , do the research do the leg work and find the info yourself .
    Anyone can put their hand out and ask for something but you will get far more respect from others if you look ,find and research things for yourself .
    There's not an issue with thinking that someone may be in over their head and suggesting that they get experienced help. That's just an opinion, and oftentimes a correct one around here. (I believe that I can safely say it wouldn't be a correct one in the case of pringlel, but you wouldn't necessarily know that, and that's understandable.) There's not a problem with pointing someone in the right direction for what they may not be aware exists and expecting them to do their own legwork. I, like you, never liked someone to use me for an encyclopedia because they were too lazy to put their own effort into it and wanted it handed to them. (Another thing that I believe that we can safely say is not the case with P.)

    Those things are not what's at issue, from my viewpoint. What's at issue is that you called another man incompetent simply because he asked for a service manual. That would fly straight in the face of proper decorum even if it were true, which it's not. I don't think that it would do any good to go back over all the really good reasons for having a service manual that folks have pointed out in this thread, but there have been many, and, as Kevin Bacon said in "A Few Good Men", they are indisputable.

    So it comes down to this: If you don't like sharing what you've accumulated over the years, why are you here at all? That's what this place is about - the sharing of info for the good of the industry and each other. We have to be careful sometimes, and sometimes we have to hope that folks are qualified to use what they are given, but overall, it's about helping folks that want help, and sharing what it's taken the you's and the me's of the world 30 or 40 years to learn and being willing to share it with the younger guys so that they don't have to reinvent the wheel. Let them learn from our successes and failures. If you feel like someone is asking to be spoonfed, you have the right to not respond. If you want to respond, and do so by immediately treating someone like they're incompetent and stupid when they've done nothing to deserve such treatment, I for one would just as soon you keep it to yourself.

    If you truly feel that what you said was out of line, why don't you just say "Sorry", instead of trying to explain away something that won't go away without your making it do so?
    Last edited by klove; 07-11-2010 at 03:56 PM.

  11. #37
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    ottawa canada
    Posts
    2,022
    why don't you just say "Sorry",

    Klove if you took the time to read my whole post you would have seen that I did apologize in advance to P if I offended him and his reply was he "was not in the least " offended and only after further consideration changed his mind .
    So in answer to your question NO I wont apologize because I already did.
    As to your second point as to why I am on here .
    I will help or provide information to anyone who provides clear accurate information ie
    Make , Model , Serial #
    A clear description of the problem they are having and what they have personally tried as a fix, Not just " its broke how do I fix it and whos got a manual "
    The need for the description is two fold . A- you can tell by what the tech writes as to weather they have tried to fix the problem and B- if the tech has some experience and if they know what the hell they are talking about .
    I will re-itterate that I have recieved personal thank you messages from techs that I have helped on here . Yes I can be a little abrupt but my no frills tell it like it is approach to helping techs on here is the way it is and if some people are offended in the process then so be it . I certainly will not loose any sleep over it .
    Like I said in the beginning " I call a spade a spade "
    The 64 roars to life Whoo hoo ...shes a rolling chassis .
    You bend em" I"ll mend em" !!!!!!!
    I"m not a service tech.. I"m a thermodynamic transfer analyst & strategic system sustainability specialist
    Best Austin Healey In Show twice in 2013 .....All those hrs paid off .

  12. #38
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Dixiana, AL
    Posts
    2,609
    "I apologize in advance for calling you incompetent".

    What a great guy.................

  13. #39
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    windy city
    Posts
    4,426

    Can I take off my blind fold now?
    \m/
    original member of the racoon brotherhood

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