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  1. #27
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    Originally posted by superheater
    How many of you would let your children inlist.There is no plan any more .
    There used to be a thread on here called "The Plan" or something like that. Us thinking people where questioning "The Plan" and all the patriotic (psychotic) Bush lemmings could say about it was that it was secret and that us mere mortals shouldn't even question this administration. Guess what? There obviously wasn't a plan or if there ever was it was totaly inept just like the shrub.

    Wonder why the Bush twins don't enlist? I'm sure their dad can secure them a nice, cushy and safe stateside duty somewhere. Hopefully they won't go AWOL like their sissy father.

    [Edited by motorboy1 on 08-26-2004 at 12:59 AM]

  2. #28
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    Originally posted by motorboy1
    Originally posted by superheater
    How many of you would let your children inlist.There is no plan any more .
    There used to be a thread on here called "The Plan" or something like that. Us thinking people where questioning "The Plan" and all the patriotic (psychotic) Bush lemmings could say about it was that it was secret and that us mere mortals shouldn't even question this administration. Guess what? There obviously wasn't a plan or if there ever was it was totaly inept just like the shrub.

    Wonder why the Bush twins don't enlist? I'm sure their dad can secure them a nice, cushy and safe stateside duty somewhere. Hopefully they won't go AWOL like their sissy father.

    [Edited by motorboy1 on 08-26-2004 at 12:59 AM]
    ================================================== ==========

    So this is where they get the expression "dumb as a post."
    No reserve. No retreat. No regrets.

    For those who have fought for it, freedom has a sweetness the protected will never know.

    http://www.airwarvietnam.com/16thSOSGunners2.jpg

    Proud member of KA Club

  3. #29
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    Originally posted by bootlen
    The president dropped those bombs over there for weeks straight (remember shock and awe) because this was going to be a 'smart war'. We were going to use bombs so that we didn't have to sacrifice large numbers of our soldiers...
    [Posted by top-notch-tek]

    ================================================== =========

    Define "large numbers of soldiers".

    If you think we can drop bombs for a month and win without occupation of the land, you know jack about war. Occupation is a necessary evil.

    Yes, resistance is greater than expected but still it is the greatest military victory in history. And, yes, it is a victory. One regime was toppled and the new government is up and running.

    Would I want my son to serve there...to die there? Of course not. But I wouldn't be angry with the President if it happened. I'd be angry with those who necessitated our actions there.
    My son is a deputy sheriff and his life is on the line every single day. He could be killed by some idiot at any time. Should I be angry with the President about that? Should I become a lib because my son's life is in danger? Should we carpet bomb my son's area of responsibility and wait for the next crime to take place and bomb the place again? Nah, I don't think so. Maybe we need to let him keep on patrolling and pray for his safety.

    Common sense. You just gotta have a little.

    You are ignorant. You are one of those people who is not open-minded enough to consider someone else's point-of-view for even a moment because you are too busy finding any way you can to defend your point-of-view and your candidate.

    By the way, even one soldier blown up directing traffic in Iraq is too damn many ... there, does that answer your question ???

    I'm sorry that I'm not 117 years old, but I am YOUNG and ALERT enough to use critical thinking and understand that this war can be fought smarter.

    This was a reasonably intelligent thread until you chimed in Bootlen.

  4. #30
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    You are ignorant. You are one of those people who is not open-minded enough to consider someone else's point-of-view for even a moment because you are too busy finding any way you can to defend your point-of-view and your candidate.

    By the way, even one soldier blown up directing traffic in Iraq is too damn many ... there, does that answer your question ???

    I'm sorry that I'm not 117 years old, but I am YOUNG and ALERT enough to use critical thinking and understand that this war can be fought smarter.

    This was a reasonably intelligent thread until you chimed in Bootlen. [Posted by top-notch-tech]

    ================================================== ==========

    Ooooooo! Aren't we testy today! Burnt toast for breakfast or that time of the month?

    The truth is offensive...but it's still truth whether you agree with it or not.

    I'm not totally satisfied with the way things are going in Iraq either. But we are committed to a mission and to back out would be wrong and all those who have died will have died for nothing. Ya know, we can fight these lousy battles in the streets of Iraq or we can fight them in that parcel of land between Canada and Mexico. Those are currently our choices. Maybe you would prefer we do this in Tucumcari, Buffalo, and San Jose. I like the war being fought right where it is.

    No reserve. No retreat. No regrets.

    For those who have fought for it, freedom has a sweetness the protected will never know.

    http://www.airwarvietnam.com/16thSOSGunners2.jpg

    Proud member of KA Club

  5. #31
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    Ooooooo! Aren't we testy today! Burnt toast for breakfast or that time of the month?

    The truth is offensive...but it's still truth whether you agree with it or not.

    I'm not totally satisfied with the way things are going in Iraq either. But we are committed to a mission and to back out would be wrong and all those who have died will have died for nothing. Ya know, we can fight these lousy battles in the streets of Iraq or we can fight them in that parcel of land between Canada and Mexico. Those are currently our choices. Maybe you would prefer we do this in Tucumcari, Buffalo, and San Jose. I like the war being fought right where it is.

    Quote from Bootlen ...

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    OMG, I'll respond to your ridiculous points one at a time:

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    1. I had raisin bran with banana for breakfast.

    2. It's not that time of the month, I am smarter than you all 31 days.

    3. Seems we agree on that point, we are both unsatisfied with the way things are going in Iraq - read my posts...

    4. Seems we agree on that point, we are not against the war, and are both for doing it over there, and are both for finishing our commitment in Iraq - read my posts...

    5. Seems we agree on that point, we both like the war being fought right where it is - read my posts...

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I don't know what you are interpreting when you are reading my posts in this thread, but it is clearly not what was intended or written... I think this battle is largely in YOUR head.

    It's almost as if you are using this forum as a way to rant about your dissatisfaction with the left...

    I'm somewhere in the middle...

    None of the points you referenced are valid regarding my posts...

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Two places where we seem to disagree:

    1. Making sense.

    ... and ...

    2. Blindly supporting George W. Bush

    Hey, you basically asked for this verbal ass-whooping

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    If you want to spew ignorance, I can not stop you and I won't even try, but let it be known, that most reading your posts realize it for just that ... 'spewed ignorance'.


  6. #32
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    OK, TNT. How would YOU have handled the Iraq problem? Convince me we were not justified in removing Sadam...with or without help.

    And...now that we are there, under the given circumstances, what would be your plan?

    All I've heard is putting down W (not necessarily by you) while the nation is at war. You are right...I am not open to that. I AM open to better ideas. None have been posted.
    No reserve. No retreat. No regrets.

    For those who have fought for it, freedom has a sweetness the protected will never know.

    http://www.airwarvietnam.com/16thSOSGunners2.jpg

    Proud member of KA Club

  7. #33
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    Originally posted by bootlen
    OK, TNT. How would YOU have handled the Iraq problem? Convince me we were not justified in removing Sadam...with or without help.

    And...now that we are there, under the given circumstances, what would be your plan?

    All I've heard is putting down W (not necessarily by you) while the nation is at war. You are right...I am not open to that. I AM open to better ideas. None have been posted.
    OK, I AM A MODERATE-UNDECIDED, NOT A LIBERAL...

    First off...

    I think we were justified in going to Iraq ... I am simply against people saying it is a moral war, it is a war of self-defense manifested as offense ... nothing more and nothing less.

    Secondly ...

    I am upset that they didn't see the resistance coming and in fact ... I don't believe that. They have had years of specialists studying this region, just look at Israel, these people HATE non-muslims...

    Did they really believe we would be greated as liberators? Did they need to feed that BS to the American public? It is an insult.

    We should have had a plan for the occupation, that's how I would have done it differently...

    Third ...

    This is where it gets ugly. We in America always want to believe there is a better way, that you can always reason with people if you find the right way, that all people are essentially good, etc ...

    We are wrong.

    The world isn't always pretty, there isn't always a humane solution to every problem.

    Unfortunately, I think this will escalate to a global religious world war III and that we will win ... But it will be ugly and people will be dead ...

    If you ask me, this is where it stands right now:

    Our government knows that in order to drop the bomb things have to get SO bad (a certain level of badness), our government is waiting for that point, and then it will be all out war. It's hard to sell all out war to the American public... But maybe after a sarin gas attack in New York City, or a train derailment in Detroit, or a nuclear disaster in another major city IT WILL BE TIME to start the erradication.

    Well you asked my POV, that is it.








  8. #34
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    TNT, I have to say we are not far apart at all. I don't think there were lies so much as lousy intel. And the intel was lousy because of the breakdown of resources created by previous lib policies. The intel info that W had was far off the mark and things were way different in 2001 than they were in, say, 1990. Iraq is in a region that is extremely volatile. What is today may not be tomorrow. A lot of changes take place in 10 years. The one thing that does not change (and has not in 6000 years) is the Arabs hatred for non-muslim, and particularly Jews. That little unchanging issue seems to be neglected by every single leader in the world in history.

    This war cannot be fought politically. It can only be fought on the battleground. We will NEVER win their hearts and minds. It is a spiritual battle and their will be only ONE winner.

    I wish I could agree that the U.S. will win this war but I don't believe we will. God help us.
    No reserve. No retreat. No regrets.

    For those who have fought for it, freedom has a sweetness the protected will never know.

    http://www.airwarvietnam.com/16thSOSGunners2.jpg

    Proud member of KA Club

  9. #35
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    Originally posted by bootlen

    I wish I could agree that the U.S. will win this war but I don't believe we will. God help us.
    Bootlen,

    One thing that you can be sure of and that helps me sleep better at night is this:

    "The United States of America will NEVER lose a war. We will never be conquered or captured. We will blow up every last living thing to prevent that from happening."

    "We may not always WIN, but we will NEVER LOSE..."

  10. #36
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    TNT, I hope you're right. But if Kerry wins the election, he'll lay down like a female dog, belly up. What a piece of crap he is.
    No reserve. No retreat. No regrets.

    For those who have fought for it, freedom has a sweetness the protected will never know.

    http://www.airwarvietnam.com/16thSOSGunners2.jpg

    Proud member of KA Club

  11. #37
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    Originally posted by bootlen
    TNT, I hope you're right. But if Kerry wins the election, he'll lay down like a female dog, belly up. What a piece of crap he is.
    Down Points:

    Kerry-

    1. two-faced
    2. way left liberal
    3. supporter of all bullcrap policies from gay marriage to affirmative action.

    Bush-

    1. uninformed and out of touch
    2. way right conservative
    3. supporter of corporate bullcrap policies like taking away over-time from union workers who make over $50,000 per year.

    Kerry is a dork, but Bush is not the almighty...

    If you ask me, both candidates suck.

    If you vote for Kerry, you vote for union support, keeping your overtime, and gay marriage and affirmative action.

    If you vote for Bush, you vote for corporate america and the stifling of upward mobility for all of our citizens, losing your overtime, and ethics that most probably agree with.

    There is no easy choice.

    But money is where it hurts the worst.

    So I will probably vote for Kerry to vote for unions and my wages and benefits and health care...

    [Edited by top-notch-tek on 08-26-2004 at 02:21 PM]

  12. #38
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    TNT, that's like taking a bribe. Kerry is also pro-abortion. If your paycheck is more important to you than children's lives, there's blood on your money.
    No reserve. No retreat. No regrets.

    For those who have fought for it, freedom has a sweetness the protected will never know.

    http://www.airwarvietnam.com/16thSOSGunners2.jpg

    Proud member of KA Club

  13. #39
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    Originally posted by bootlen
    TNT, that's like taking a bribe. Kerry is also pro-abortion. If your paycheck is more important to you than children's lives, there's blood on your money.
    I understand that.

    But I believe that it is not always so black and white.
    (I don't mean the abortion issue, I am firmly against that.)

    What I mean is this:

    How many children die because of reduced funding to local facilities from the federal gov't and they can't be protected from abuse in their home and city?

    Or...

    How many children will die because of reduced funding or a lack of support for nationalized health care?

    Or...

    How many children will die because Bush supports forcing people into marriage, even if it abusive and is a broken home?

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Bootlen,

    I am anti-abortion ... but abortion is not the only force at work in this country that is harming and killing children.

    I don't believe in over-simplifications ...


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