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  1. #14
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    Jul 2001
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    Buffalo N.Y.
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    I wasen't accusing you of being right or wrong, you were stating your opinion.
    My post was a response to your first reply as to why are we not in other countries doing the same as we are in Iraq.
    Any average, stable minded American can see through the smoke that has risen and come to a conclusion why we needed to take Saddam out.

    Morality is another question, I guess it all depends on what side of the street of Morality your stand on.
    Yes we dropped the A-bomb on a country, twice. But was it our morals or thiers we were concerned with? Our morals dictated that we save more American lives than Japanese lives, it was a risk, we took it and we won.

    Every war has a risk of winning and lossing, problem is that you just can't tell the outcome without going through it first.
    Yes, fighting wars does include fighting but it also includes staying after the fact and stabilizing, which does include traffic control amongst other duties.

    Our war is not with the Iraq people, it is with the insurgents, albiet some are Iraq I assume, but most are of other origin infusing into the populace, making our job that much harder to packup or drop a nuclear device to win.
    Remember, Japan was a country at war, with full support of it's people, Iraq is a whole other beast to be fought in a very much different manner.

    One similarity between other wars is that they can roam among us, looking for targets of opportunity on our soil, this is where we are most vunerable.
    We as a nation need to control the people that wish us harm, problem is how to do it without either closing the borders, or locking up every single muslim?
    Our freedoms can bite us in the arsh if we don't stand together and watch out for one another.

  2. #15
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    Aug 2004
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    See, we all agree...



    The point here is that this rally 'round the leader mentality is what we all have to resort to when the war effort is attacked.

    Then we stop questioning...

    I don't question IF the war should be fought...

    I question HOW the war is being fought.

    The president dropped those bombs over there for weeks straight (remember shock and awe) because this was going to be a 'smart war'. We were going to use bombs so that we didn't have to sacrifice large numbers of our soldiers...

    So we did all that to turn around and post our soldiers on street corners being blowm up???

    I don't get it.

    Why don't we build a fortress in the middle of every town and send the Iraqis forces out to fight for us???

    It seems like this is what it is moving towards, but a little late. This is a war, they should have planned to avoid this QUAGMIRE that our soldiers have been stuck in for a year...

    I think whoever comes to the office of the presidency, will have to fight this battle for generations to come. I don't think this war is exclusive to Bush, nor can it only be fought by Bush...

    It will be fought by whoever resides at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue... I'm quite confident.

    Meanwhile everybody's quality of life is slipping here. What are we going to have left to defend it America turns to s---??? I'm not a socialist. But we need somebody in office who will pay attention to what is happening here.

    1. Why are we the only industrialized nation on earth who does not offer healthcare for all its citizens?

    2. Why do we send billions of dollars overseas to countries like Egypt when we have people here with no jobs?

    We can't ignore or neglect our society.

    I just don't think that George Bush is necessarily the answer to all of our prayers... Nor do I think that about John Kerry.

    However, at least I can trust a little more in the words that come out of W's mouth.


  3. #16
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    Aug 2004
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    Bobby7388...

    I don't feel attacked.

    Sometimes I just say "For Pete's Sake" for dramatic effect.

    However, I do not believe that Japan was a country with the full support of its citizens.

    I believe that Japan was a country ruled by fascists where the people saw no other choice but to support it...

  4. #17
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    Jul 2001
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    Buffalo N.Y.
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    Americans do not support universal healthcare, though some may believe that, it just will not happen with the American mentality as of now.
    It is a drain on any economy and something will have to give, yet no one wants to give up anything.

    When I was in my teens and twenties I use to wonder why we give all this money away to other countries.
    Ever hear of buying your friends, well that's just about what it comes down to. If we were to stop aid the world would be a much different place than it is now.

    As for military plans, what might work today isn't going to work tommorow. Any military planner knows that situations change, and plans will have to follow. There just isn't a plan that will stay written in concrete.
    And when I hear Kerry speak of said plans I know the guy is full of shiat, even he knows that a solid, straight forward plan doesn't exist.


    The Japanese were a very disciplined society, following their Emperors decisions without hesitation, granted there are always a few stray cats, but all-in-all they were a nation at war against the evil Americans. They were only not allowed to question the Emperors decisions they were not even allowed to see him in person, to them he was a god not to be dismissed, same as any religion holds thier gods in high regard. The difference here is that they were a united religion with one goal.
    After the war Japans discipline helped the Americans alot in securing thier own nation, problems were few and far between. Other countries were not so fortunate.

  5. #18
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    Originally posted by bobby7388
    Americans do not support universal healthcare, though some may believe that, it just will not happen with the American mentality as of now.
    It is a drain on any economy and something will have to give, yet no one wants to give up anything.

    When I was in my teens and twenties I use to wonder why we give all this money away to other countries.
    Ever hear of buying your friends, well that's just about what it comes down to. If we were to stop aid the world would be a much different place than it is now.

    As for military plans, what might work today isn't going to work tommorow. Any military planner knows that situations change, and plans will have to follow. There just isn't a plan that will stay written in concrete.
    And when I hear Kerry speak of said plans I know the guy is full of shiat, even he knows that a solid, straight forward plan doesn't exist.


    The Japanese were a very disciplined society, following their Emperors decisions without hesitation, granted there are always a few stray cats, but all-in-all they were a nation at war against the evil Americans. They were only not allowed to question the Emperors decisions they were not even allowed to see him in person, to them he was a god not to be dismissed, same as any religion holds thier gods in high regard. The difference here is that they were a united religion with one goal.
    After the war Japans discipline helped the Americans alot in securing thier own nation, problems were few and far between. Other countries were not so fortunate.
    Wouldn't you say that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of the cure??? Doesn't this usually hold true??? Well, in my life it has.

    I think it is the same with healthcare...

    You spoke of the cost of universal health care on our society and the drain that it would be on the economy...

    I'm here to tell you, from my interpretation of current events, having 42 million uninsured Americans in a MUCH, MUCH bigger drain on the economy. From sick days, to unproductive-unhealthy workers, to medical leaves, to low moral and low productivity...

    Whether we want to admit it or not, the rest of the civilized world has proven that universal health care is a CIVILIZED choice that only benefits society...

    If we choose the path to universal healthcare, yes, we would have to admit that things are hard and expensive...

    But when we choose our current path, we just pretend that there are no costs associated with having this many uninsured citizens. Once again, the sheltered-American way is to stick our heads in the sand or listen to some feel-good music and pretend like it really doesn't matter.

    The answer is GREED, pure and simple. Capitalism at its rawest and uncensored...

  6. #19
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    May 2004
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    12,284

    Re: My intent ...

    Originally posted by top-notch-tek
    is not to say that we shouldn't be in Iraq...

    But to challenge the notion raised by this thread starter that this war is somehow solely a moral war...

    I will defend your right to make the challenge but understand what you are challenging first. There was NO "notion raised by me on this war being solely a moral war". You just made that up all by yourself.

    I was sent this story and was appalled by the way the father gave his answer. I have two sons and a daughter with two grandchildren. I posted here to see if others reacted the same way I did. You did, thank you.

    It is not that I am against this war or for it. War, no matter where it is or who is in it is horrifying. Been there done that...there are no real winners.

    Thank you for your replies to this thread.

  7. #20
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    Sorry Lusker...

    You are right...

    I did assume your view...

    I just assumed that because you posted this piece of literature that you were supporting it's content ... due to your lack of explanation or opinions in the original post.

    Enough said ... I believe that I have explained my view on the article.

    Nice website by the way ... How's business???



    [Edited by top-notch-tek on 08-24-2004 at 10:40 AM]

  8. #21
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    May 2004
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    12,284

    Re: Sorry Lusker...

    Originally posted by top-notch-tek
    You are right...

    I did assume your view...

    I just assumed that because you posted this piece of literature that you were supporting it's content ... due to your lack of explanation or opinions in the original post.

    Enough said ... I believe that I have explained my view on the article.

    Nice website by the way ... How's business???
    TNK,

    It's all good. My lack of explanations or opinions was intentional. In retrospect you may understand my actions. I did not contaminate the post with my view before the replies. I tend to think that I get a better view of other opinions that way and believe that this post area is perfect for just that. I must admit...it was an interesting ride.

    Thanks for the website comment. I wanted to make something as simple and to the point as possible. Again, not contaminating views. Pictures tend to give better input than words in my opinion. Too many links create boredom.

    Business has been good this year, thanks for asking. Right now we are experiencing the normal break that comes from back-to-school. This is a welcome time for my guys as they need time to breath after going mach II for 7 months.

    I hope you have smooth sailing as well, all things are good. Thanks again to everyone for their replies.

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    1,503

    Re: OK then ...

    Originally posted by top-notch-tek
    Why aren't we in the Sudan right now ?

    Why aren't we in North Korea right now ?

    Why aren't we in Iran right now ?

    Why aren't we in the Palestinian territories right now ?

    Attrocities worse than anything Saddam ever inflicted are going on in these places right now. If this is a moral war ONLY, why are not fighting in ALL of these places ???



    You eat an elephant one bite at a time....

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
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    Mid-Michigan.
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    Re: Re: OK then ...

    Originally posted by spike
    Originally posted by top-notch-tek
    Why aren't we in the Sudan right now ?

    Why aren't we in North Korea right now ?

    Why aren't we in Iran right now ?

    Why aren't we in the Palestinian territories right now ?

    Attrocities worse than anything Saddam ever inflicted are going on in these places right now. If this is a moral war ONLY, why are not fighting in ALL of these places ???



    You eat an elephant one bite at a time....

    I wouldn't know !

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
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    126
    How many of you would let your children inlist.There is no plan any more .

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
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    SC
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    Originally posted by superheater
    How many of you would let your children inlist.There is no plan any more .
    ================================================== =========

    Not me. I'd expect him to be an adult first.
    No reserve. No retreat. No regrets.

    For those who have fought for it, freedom has a sweetness the protected will never know.

    http://www.airwarvietnam.com/16thSOSGunners2.jpg

    Proud member of KA Club

  13. #26
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    Feb 2004
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    The president dropped those bombs over there for weeks straight (remember shock and awe) because this was going to be a 'smart war'. We were going to use bombs so that we didn't have to sacrifice large numbers of our soldiers...
    [Posted by top-notch-tek]

    ================================================== =========

    Define "large numbers of soldiers".

    If you think we can drop bombs for a month and win without occupation of the land, you know jack about war. Occupation is a necessary evil.

    Yes, resistance is greater than expected but still it is the greatest military victory in history. And, yes, it is a victory. One regime was toppled and the new government is up and running.

    Would I want my son to serve there...to die there? Of course not. But I wouldn't be angry with the President if it happened. I'd be angry with those who necessitated our actions there.
    My son is a deputy sheriff and his life is on the line every single day. He could be killed by some idiot at any time. Should I be angry with the President about that? Should I become a lib because my son's life is in danger? Should we carpet bomb my son's area of responsibility and wait for the next crime to take place and bomb the place again? Nah, I don't think so. Maybe we need to let him keep on patrolling and pray for his safety.

    Common sense. You just gotta have a little.

    No reserve. No retreat. No regrets.

    For those who have fought for it, freedom has a sweetness the protected will never know.

    http://www.airwarvietnam.com/16thSOSGunners2.jpg

    Proud member of KA Club

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