Before Christ

[hvac r us 2]

Just curious...

If the only way to heaven is through Jesus Christ...what happened to all the people that lived before Jesus was born?

[acmanko]

They are in hell waiting for the rest of us.

[hi-tork]

They died and are awaiting a resurrection to life on earth, if they were approved by God.
I believe that the number going to heaven is a sealed 144,000 individuals, the rest will live here on earth forever under righteous conditions and governed by Jesus Christ from heaven all under God. I also believe that not all have ascended yet. I personally want to live forever here on earth; I have no desire to live in heaven.
Rev 14:1, And I saw, and, look! the Lamb standing upon the Mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand having his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads.
Psalm 37:10,*And just a little while longer, and the wicked one will be no more;
And you will certainly give attention to his place, and he will not be. 11*But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth,
And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace. 29*The righteous themselves will possess the earth,
And they will reside forever upon it.

[woods mech]

Those that were of the jewish nation worshipped Christ but they worshipped looking forward to his coming. All of their ceremonies in the santuary service pointed toward the coming messiah. We worship today looking back to Christ. Ironically those before Christ and We after Christ are saved by our faith in Christ because we have not seen him and neither did they. The Holy Spirit speaks to all hearts and minds. Both those with and without Christ. Christ will judge people on the light that was given them by the Holy Spirit.

[top-notch-tek]

Those who died before the life and death of Jesus were granted a place in heaven by following the teachings of the Old Testament.

After Jesus ... No more need for sacrifice, he gave the ultimate and eternal sacrifice ... Then you are granted a way into heaven by following the teaching of Jesus and the New Testament.

[bootlen]

Originally posted by hi-tork
They died and are awaiting a resurrection to life on earth, if they were approved by God.
I believe that the number going to heaven is a sealed 144,000 individuals, the rest will live here on earth forever under righteous conditions and governed by Jesus Christ from heaven all under God. I also believe that not all have ascended yet. I personally want to live forever here on earth; I have no desire to live in heaven.
Rev 14:1, And I saw, and, look! the Lamb standing upon the Mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand having his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads.
Psalm 37:10,*And just a little while longer, and the wicked one will be no more;
And you will certainly give attention to his place, and he will not be. 11*But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth,
And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace. 29*The righteous themselves will possess the earth,
And they will reside forever upon it.

================================================== =========

My gosh, where do you people get your information? It sure ain't from the Bible.

The Old Testament saints (those who died before Christ's resurrection) are with the Lord ("...apart from the body, together with the Lord.). They believed and looked forward in time to the Messiah just as we look backward in time to the Messiah. The victory of Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection is all over the Old Testament. See, for example, Psalm 22 and 23. Also look at Isaiah 9. There are numerous others.

The 144,000 you speak of is the number of believing Jews remaining here on earth after the church is caught up in the air (the rapture) and will witness to those who have not heard or believed the Gospel. Those will be terrible times when persecution will be at its worst in history. This time is known as the great tribulation and will last 7 years. At the end of the 7 years, Christ will return with His church and rule for 1000 years (the milliniel reign) while satan is bound up. At the end of the 1000 years, satan will be loosed, soon to face Christ face to face and he will be cast into the abyss to be devoured by fire. The earth and Heaven will be destroyed by fire, removing all sin and corruption. Time as we know it will come to an end and we will live in eternity where time does not exist.

We will work on earth but have our homes in Heaven, each of us with his own mansion. While we will work it will no longer be by the sweat of the brow...in other words, we will not labor.

Text without context is pretext.

[sline-dawg]

We will work on earth but have our homes in Heaven, each of us with his own mansion. While we will work it will no longer be by the sweat of the brow...in other words, we will not labor.
i like that better than 72 virgins ,i want to rest in peace.

[woods mech]

Bootlen,
I don't agree with you on your interpretation of the 144,000. But I do agree with your explanation of those of the old testament that were saved by looking forward to Christ.

[woods mech]

Also,
We will live on the earth made new with GOD. The new Jerusalem will descend out of heaven and will be at the site of the mount of olives it will be approx the size of the state of oregon. We will have homes in the country and in the New Jerusalem. We will worship every Sabbath and New moon before GOD in the New Jerusalem. GOD will have his throne here on earth. That will be something.

[hi-tork]

Originally posted by bootlen

My gosh, where do you people get your information? It sure ain't from the Bible.

The Old Testament saints (those who died before Christ's resurrection) are with the Lord ("...apart from the body, together with the Lord.). They believed and looked forward in time to the Messiah just as we look backward in time to the Messiah. The victory of Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection is all over the Old Testament. See, for example, Psalm 22 and 23. Also look at Isaiah 9. There are numerous others.

The 144,000 you speak of is the number of believing Jews remaining here on earth after the church is caught up in the air (the rapture) and will witness to those who have not heard or believed the Gospel. Those will be terrible times when persecution will be at its worst in history. This time is known as the great tribulation and will last 7 years. At the end of the 7 years, Christ will return with His church and rule for 1000 years (the milliniel reign) while satan is bound up. At the end of the 1000 years, satan will be loosed, soon to face Christ face to face and he will be cast into the abyss to be devoured by fire. The earth and Heaven will be destroyed by fire, removing all sin and corruption. Time as we know it will come to an end and we will live in eternity where time does not exist.

We will work on earth but have our homes in Heaven, each of us with his own mansion. While we will work it will no longer be by the sweat of the brow...in other words, we will not labor.

Text without context is pretext. [/B]

My information is from the bible, didn’t you notice the direct quotes?
The individuals who died before Christ were asleep in death, conscious of nothing at all. The word Hell comes from Greek and Hebrew Sheol and Hades, common grave of mankind. When they died it was as if they were in a deep sleep, a twinkling of an eye, close your eyes you’re dead, open them you’ve been resurrected, but because theres no activity it skips over all the time and things we experience. They were looking forward to the Messiah coming, they knew he was the only one that could buy back the right to perfection(the ransom), thus resurrecting them in the future.
The 144,000 individuals is not made up solely of Jews, they lost that right when they had Jesus killed. The covenants formed after Jesus’ resurrection opened that privilege to all mankind, anyone faithful, thus the scripture, out of all tribes and tongues...
I agree that the Great Tribulation will be terrible times, but we don’t know how long that will last, the scriptures haven’t disclosed that...how do you come up with 7 years?
Christ will reign for a 1000 years, allowing mankind to become perfect once again(way it was supposed to be before Adam messed it up for everyone) then Satan will be loosed for a short time, and try and get ones “over to his side” The scriptures say he’ll succeed, the # of those is as the sands of the sea, indicating a lot of people will make a bad choice. Satan and those he “turned” will then be destroyed forever, and mankind will live forever here on earth, its built into us, thus the claim that none of us wants to die or ever experience it. The earth however, will not be destroyed, why would it? Its perfect now, has its own restorative powers, just doesn’t have perfect inhabitants.
That would be quite a trek home every night, don’t agree with you there either, but that’s fine. Instead of getting in a slinging match I might say: If you truly feel that your beliefs are the right ones, then they are...

[wolfdog]

Hi-tork send me an email.

[Edited by wolfdog on 08-22-2004 at 09:24 PM]

[hi-tork]

"You've got mail"

[Edited by hi-tork on 08-22-2004 at 09:32 PM]

[bootlen]

Originally posted by hi-tork

Originally posted by bootlen

My gosh, where do you people get your information? It sure ain't from the Bible.

The Old Testament saints (those who died before Christ's resurrection) are with the Lord ("...apart from the body, together with the Lord.). They believed and looked forward in time to the Messiah just as we look backward in time to the Messiah. The victory of Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection is all over the Old Testament. See, for example, Psalm 22 and 23. Also look at Isaiah 9. There are numerous others.

The 144,000 you speak of is the number of believing Jews remaining here on earth after the church is caught up in the air (the rapture) and will witness to those who have not heard or believed the Gospel. Those will be terrible times when persecution will be at its worst in history. This time is known as the great tribulation and will last 7 years. At the end of the 7 years, Christ will return with His church and rule for 1000 years (the milliniel reign) while satan is bound up. At the end of the 1000 years, satan will be loosed, soon to face Christ face to face and he will be cast into the abyss to be devoured by fire. The earth and Heaven will be destroyed by fire, removing all sin and corruption. Time as we know it will come to an end and we will live in eternity where time does not exist.

We will work on earth but have our homes in Heaven, each of us with his own mansion. While we will work it will no longer be by the sweat of the brow...in other words, we will not labor.

Text without context is pretext.

My information is from the bible, didn’t you notice the direct quotes?
The individuals who died before Christ were asleep in death, conscious of nothing at all. The word Hell comes from Greek and Hebrew Sheol and Hades, common grave of mankind. When they died it was as if they were in a deep sleep, a twinkling of an eye, close your eyes you’re dead, open them you’ve been resurrected, but because theres no activity it skips over all the time and things we experience. They were looking forward to the Messiah coming, they knew he was the only one that could buy back the right to perfection(the ransom), thus resurrecting them in the future.
The 144,000 individuals is not made up solely of Jews, they lost that right when they had Jesus killed. The covenants formed after Jesus’ resurrection opened that privilege to all mankind, anyone faithful, thus the scripture, out of all tribes and tongues...
I agree that the Great Tribulation will be terrible times, but we don’t know how long that will last, the scriptures haven’t disclosed that...how do you come up with 7 years?
Christ will reign for a 1000 years, allowing mankind to become perfect once again(way it was supposed to be before Adam messed it up for everyone) then Satan will be loosed for a short time, and try and get ones “over to his side” The scriptures say he’ll succeed, the # of those is as the sands of the sea, indicating a lot of people will make a bad choice. Satan and those he “turned” will then be destroyed forever, and mankind will live forever here on earth, its built into us, thus the claim that none of us wants to die or ever experience it. The earth however, will not be destroyed, why would it? Its perfect now, has its own restorative powers, just doesn’t have perfect inhabitants.
That would be quite a trek home every night, don’t agree with you there either, but that’s fine. Instead of getting in a slinging match I might say: If you truly feel that your beliefs are the right ones, then they are...
[/B]

================================================== =========

No slingin' match intended. I believe we can have some great dialogue here. Best thing about it is you're gonna make me dig for answers. Been a while since I studied this so it'll make for a good refresher.

See Rev. 7 for the 144,000. All are from the 12 tribes of Israel. If you're saying they are not all from the tribe of Judah, I give you that one. But I consider all Israelites to be Jews. That was my take.
They have come from having served God faithfully during the trib and hold a special place near His throne along with the trib faithful.

I think we're probably in agreement concerning Sheol. There's righteous Sheol for the saved and unrighteous Sheol for the unsaved, where the souls of men sleep till judgement. But please, let's get past this 7 year trib thing first. This may take some time because, as I recall, it takes a pretty good bit of cross reference in Scripture. It'll probably take some time so I beg patience. I do know there are post-, mid-, and pre-trib believers. Post-tribs believe that the church will suffer the trib. Mid-tribs believe the church will be raptured 3-1/2 years into the trib. Pre-tribs (I am one obviously) believe that the church will be raptured immediately before the trib begins. And I think I have heard of a few who believe there will be no rapture (pretty much contrary to Scripture). I am aware the mid-tribs may possibly be correct although I strongly doubt it.

New heaven & earth...see Rev. 21 and II Peter 3:10-12. It's pretty graphic and leaves little doubt.

Making the trip to/from Heaven. Will be a short trip as we'll not be bound by time or space. Time as we know it will end since that is the definition of eternity. Just the language explains that. We will have glorified bodies. It can be hard to conceive of the reality of that but part of that package is the ability to be anywhere we want to be when we want to be. You will be able to walk the distance or simply be instantly transported there.

As far as who killed Jesus, yes, the Jews were complicit but so was I and you and everyone who has ever or will ever draw breath. Fact is, Christ "gave Himself up a ransom for many." Christ was not murdered. He did not commit suicide either. He gave Himself over to be crucified, an atonement for all our sins, be we Jew or Gentile, Greek or Roman, slave or free.

Top, no one ever gained access to Heaven by following any law or teaching. The only way, regardless of when they were born, is through Jesus Christ. See John 14:6.