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  1. #53
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    [QUOTE]Originally posted by bobby7388
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by johnl45
    Originally posted by James 3528
    Originally posted by johnl45
    Originally posted by James 3528
    And even if there was...you can thank the republicans
    O.K thanks Mr. Bush for giving this gift to our children.

    What causes the national debt to grow?

    perhaps most significant, the huge tax cuts in 2001 and 2003 that dramatically reduced revenue.
    Originally posted by James 3528

    You still did not get it Numb Nuts. You were bragging on a huge money surplus when Clinton left office. Well guess what? Clinton don't spend the money. Congress spends money and during that time the republicans controlled both branches of government that pass spending and the budget. I never thought there was a huge surplus anyway but if there was at all, it was no thanks to Clinton.

    No, I got it completely Bush gives a supposed tax cut but has no money to pay for it. Like going to the Bank and using your bank card for a cash advance then your children get to repay it with lots of interest for your Big Banking buddies With Clintons surplus Big Banking buddies.weren't mankin any money and we can't have that Thanks Georgie for the tax cut. One thing for sure Clinton’s surplus was a hell of a lot more then Georgie boys when he leaves office in January.

    Here again john, your arguing a point which does not take into account all the particulates of what makes a deficit.

    One thing is for sure, and time and history will prove it.
    Taxing an economy to death will kill it.
    You cannot argue this cause because we are the reason for the ups and downs in our economy, we the people.
    For instance, who is going to pay for national healthcare? you?
    Who is going to pay for security? you?
    Who is going to pay for environmental concerns? you?
    Who is going to pay?
    Every cause cannot be taken care of without running much larger deficits. It's just a shame that Bush doesn't see things as you want. [/B]
    GO HERE AND READ.. http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?threadid=36547

  2. #54
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    May 2001
    Location
    Bennington, Vermont U.S.A.
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    13,864
    I was afraid that Bush was going to screw up the economy. When his father was President I almost lost my whole company. I spent many sleepless nights trying to figure out how to steer the ship through that mess.

    We did good during the Clinton years that is why I voted for Gore. Our company continues to do well with Bush in office. Plus I think he retailated to the 9/11 attacks with a proper response. So I will vote for him this time.

    People might accuse me of voting with my pocketbook. To that I respond. "Yes, Yes,I do."

    As far as having hundreds of people out of work. Where are they? I could use 2.

    Nike is not going to open a sneaker factory in this country until 2035*. There is nobody in the US that wants to work in a sneaker factory. I know I didn't raise and educate my kids to work in a sneaker factory. Did any of you?

    *In 30 years robots will be doing most of the manufacturing work so even making things in China will not be profitable. China will have a recession in 30 years.

  3. #55
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    You have hit on something I knew years ago. Automation plays a big roll in putting people out of work. Would you rather have a robot or 6 UAW members?

  4. #56
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    Jul 2001
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    Buffalo N.Y.
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    That was a good read james.

    Here's another example of johns misguided thoughts. During the Reagan years the tax burden was lessend, yet the revenue coming into the treasury was increased.
    It was the democrats that spent the extra revenue giving the impression that Reagan caused a deficit.

    To say that tax burden decreases cause higher deficits is simply wrong.

    The effects of 9/11 will be felt on this country for many years to come as it relates to the economy, some bad, some good.
    As john posted earlier, "the economic downturn following 9/11".
    It is wrong to try and argue a point of falsehoods, and that statement is false. The economy was slowing much before 9/11, and any surplus will always follow the same path.

  5. #57
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    Waterford Michigan
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    Originally posted by bobby7388
    Here's another example of johns misguided thoughts. During the Reagan years the tax burden was lessend, yet the revenue coming into the treasury was increased.
    It was the democrats that spent the extra revenue giving the impression that Reagan caused a deficit.
    You got your facts messed up, Reagan causes the deficit with the largest military budget ever.

  6. #58
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    Waterford Michigan
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    Originally posted by James 3528
    You have hit on something I knew years ago. Automation plays a big roll in putting people out of work. Would you rather have a robot or 6 UAW members?
    A robot doesn't need his air conditioner fixed so I'll go with 6 UAW members who earn a decent living and have the money to pay for my services.

  7. #59
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    The UAW are nothing more

    Than expensive robots. The can't even think for themselves.

  8. #60
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    Oct 2001
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    Waterford Michigan
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    Originally posted by James 3528
    You have hit on something I knew years ago. Automation plays a big roll in putting people out of work. Would you rather have a robot or 6 UAW members?
    One thing for sure a robot doesn't need his air conditioner fixed so I'll go with 6 UAW members.

  9. #61
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    Mar 2002
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    Concord, CA
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    Originally posted by johnl45
    You got your facts messed up, Reagan causes the deficit with the largest military budget ever.
    From 1980 to 1992 defense spending rose 30 percent while social spending rose 44 percent. You were saying something about facts?

    That fact of the matter is that Reagan was a pragmatist. He wanted increased military spending but had a mostly Democrat congress to deal with. So he gave them what they wanted and they gave him what he wanted. And the fact of the matter is that welfare programs increased in size dramatically faster than the military budget.

    Reagan was complicit to be sure. But since the Constitution grants Congress the power to make budgets, they are first responsible for the deficits of that era. And since welfare programs grew at nearly a 50% faster rate than the military budget, they are also first responsible.

  10. #62
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    Good info Ira BUTTT

    You're wasting it on a 10 on the IQ chart!!

  11. #63
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    Originally posted by Irascible
    Originally posted by johnl45
    You got your facts messed up, Reagan causes the deficit with the largest military budget ever.
    From 1980 to 1992 defense spending rose 30 percent while social spending rose 44 percent. You were saying something about facts?
    That fact of the matter is that Reagan was a pragmatist. He wanted increased military spending but had a mostly Democrat congress to deal with. So he gave them what they wanted and they gave him what he wanted. And the fact of the matter is that welfare programs increased in size dramatically faster than the military budget.
    Reagan was complicit to be sure. But since the Constitution grants Congress the power to make budgets, they are first responsible for the deficits of that era. And since welfare programs grew at nearly a 50% faster rate than the military budget, they are also first responsible.
    Thanks for at least presenting a valid point of view. It's refreshing instead of the name calling practiced by many right-wingers on this board.

    While conservatives blamed House Democrats for declaring each of Reagan's budgets "Dead On Arrival" before going on their own spending spree, liberals have several strong refutations:
    If Congress had passed Reagan's budgets exactly as proposed, the national debt would have been $29.4 billion worse.
    Many Republicans forget that they controlled the Senate from January 1981 to January 1987. Both the Senate and the House vote twice on each budget, once on the original budget bill, and again after the conference committee has hammered out a compromise. Therefore, the Senate is an equal player in the budget process.
    Reagan could have vetoed any budget unacceptable to him. He did not.
    Not all of Reagan's budgets were declared DOA; Congress actually passed his first one. The first one was critical because it contained his famous, three-year supply-side tax cuts, and established a new direction for tax policy.
    Along with the national debt grew our trade deficit. MIT professor Lester Thurow made the famous quote that "the epitaph of the Reagan presidency will be: 'When Ronald Reagan became President, the United States was the largest creditor nation. When he left the presidency, we were the world's largest debtor nation.

    Another myth is who gets welfare. Mention the word "welfare" and most people automatically think of the poor. But the fact is that corporations and the rich receive far more welfare than the poor. Welfare for the poor (AFDC and Food Stamps) totaled $50 billion in 1992, but welfare for corporations (pork-barrel projects, business subsidies and tax breaks) are estimated to run from $85 billion to $800 billion, depending on which think tank you listen to. Brian Kelly, a Washington journalist who has written a book on corporate pork, discloses that pork alone costs taxpayers between $20 to $100 billion a year. By itself, the $500 billion dollar Savings & Loan bailout would have funded 10 years of AFDC and Food Stamps. There is simply no question who receives the most welfare from government.

    During the 80s, government spending on individuals increased for everyone except the poor. The reason is because the poor cannot afford lobbyists to defend their interests in Washington; consequently, politicians find the poor easy targets for budget cuts. Between 1970 and 1991, the purchasing power of benefits for the typical AFDC family fell 42 percent, primarily as a result of state and federal cuts.

  12. #64
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    I am a busy person. I don't have time to detail why you are stupid. Especially the kind of stupid where it looks like you woke up in the morning and planned to be stupid or you should be the grand marshall in the stupid parade.

  13. #65
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    May 2003
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    Dallas/Ft Worth, TX
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    Hey I worked in a sneaker factory. We made New Balance shoes and I had to be a member of a stupid union. The AFL-CIO what a crooked organization that is!. One time they came thru asking for 2 volunteers from our factory to go to Memphis and protest. Me and this other guy said OK since they were paying for gas and the hotel. We got there and there were hundereds of us idiots marching down Beale St. with some Martin Luther King wannabe leading us. No one knew why we were there we were just marching and chanting stupid slogans. When we got to the Pyramid downtown the police told us to disperse and the ones who wanted to go to jail should get on one side of the street while the others should get on the other side. Well I told my friend I wasn't going to jail for this stupid bunch of people so we both left. They had people there that were ex-hippy professional protestors I guess they sent anywhere they wanted to have a protest. I learned a lot that day about the left and their deceptive practices. All that talk about how the union helps you get better wages didn't apply to me I only made $5.10 at my highest point. I moved to Texas and took a non-union job and got $10.00 an hour to start. Never again will I join a union. Thank goodness I live in Texas and I don't have be in a union to work. Unions are what drove the business out of this country by extorting more and more money from companies and using dirty tactics. I used to be on the left side of the spectrum but I had enough sense to see thru the B.S. I am not a right wing diehard but I am conservative for sure due to what I have learned from experience.

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