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  1. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    SC
    Posts
    20,677
    Originally posted by woods mech
    Yes I am an SDA now. I was raised to be Southern Baptist so I know the teachings of that church. I am the only SDA in my family and my wife is the only one in her family. I just wanted to stimulate discussion. It is not my job to convince anyone of anything that is the Holy Spirit's perogative. I will answer questions to the best of my ability. I am no saint and don't claim to be. But I have done a lot of studying of the bible and have learned a lot about things that most churches do not teach anymore. It seems to me that nowdays most churches are more interested in making everyone feel good instead of teaching truth. That is a shame.
    ================================================== =========

    Yep, Woody, it's really hard to find a preacher who is an expositor. Most want to just tickle their members ears just to make sure they keep coming back to his church. The church I attened previous to the one I attend now had a preacher who is teaching history at a local college campus. He does not believe in the virgin birth of Christ, the 6 day creation, and a host of other basic tenets of Christianity. Basically, he is a heathen who somehow weaseled his way into a pulpit.

    Very sad.
    No reserve. No retreat. No regrets.

    For those who have fought for it, freedom has a sweetness the protected will never know.

    http://www.airwarvietnam.com/16thSOSGunners2.jpg

    Proud member of KA Club

  2. #28
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Franklin
    Posts
    256
    Originally posted by bootlen
    Well, look a little more closely, Woody. The true church is made up of those who have received Jesus Christ as their personal Savior only. That's all that is required.

    Where is that scripture? I do not see receiving Christ. I see REPENT and BE BAPTISED and you shall be SAVED.

  3. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    SC
    Posts
    20,677
    Originally posted by JMP
    Originally posted by bootlen
    Well, look a little more closely, Woody. The true church is made up of those who have received Jesus Christ as their personal Savior only. That's all that is required.

    Where is that scripture? I do not see receiving Christ. I see REPENT and BE BAPTISED and you shall be SAVED.
    ================================================== =========

    Look up John 1:12. "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God."

    Again, if baptism is a prerequisite for salvation, Jesus lied to the thief on the cross, never mind countless Old Testament believers.

    No reserve. No retreat. No regrets.

    For those who have fought for it, freedom has a sweetness the protected will never know.

    http://www.airwarvietnam.com/16thSOSGunners2.jpg

    Proud member of KA Club

  4. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    175

    Confused

    Ever hear of ACLU. The anti-Christ liberals union. The church has always been persecuted, always will here on earth. It only gets worse! If your a true believer then you are the church, not the bricks and mortar.

  5. #31
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Dallas/Ft Worth, TX
    Posts
    439
    I believe when Jesus addressed the subject of baptism he was speaking to those who would have a chance to be baptised. Some have never heard of Christ or the gospel and have not had the chance to make a decision. I believe CHRIST will judge them by the light they given by the Holy Spirit. The thief on the cross didn't have a chance to be baptised but he realized his situation and who Christ was and repented of his sin. GOD is not about rituals or hocus pocus. I believe you must be baptised if given the opportunity but if you're killed before you are baptised GOD knows your heart and what you would have done had you been given the chance. Remember Christ was baptised by John to "fulfill all righteousness" and he is our example. GOD's requirements on us are based on common sense and not ridiculous rituals instituted by man. I have heard it said that just as Christ died and paid the penalty of sin (or the second death)for us. He also was baptised to cover those who weren't given the opportunity to be baptised.

  6. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    SC
    Posts
    20,677
    Woody. Agreed.
    No reserve. No retreat. No regrets.

    For those who have fought for it, freedom has a sweetness the protected will never know.

    http://www.airwarvietnam.com/16thSOSGunners2.jpg

    Proud member of KA Club

  7. #33
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Franklin
    Posts
    256
    Originally posted by bootlen
    Originally posted by JMP
    Originally posted by bootlen
    Well, look a little more closely, Woody. The true church is made up of those who have received Jesus Christ as their personal Savior only. That's all that is required.

    Where is that scripture? I do not see receiving Christ. I see REPENT and BE BAPTISED and you shall be SAVED.
    ================================================== =========

    Look up John 1:12. "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God."

    Again, if baptism is a prerequisite for salvation, Jesus lied to the thief on the cross, never mind countless Old Testament believers.

    I did not say baptism is a pre-req. What is the greek word for RECEIVED and what does it mean? How does one receive Jesus..scriptures only please.

  8. #34
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    East Grand Forks, MN
    Posts
    1,373
    Where is that scripture? I do not see receiving Christ. I see REPENT and BE BAPTISED and you shall be SAVED.

    open your eyes. have you compared scripture with other scripture? no.
    Salvation is not of works that we do in order to get into Heaven. it is a free gift, do you not understand what a gift is? you either accept it or refuse it, you don't earn it.

    Again, if baptism is a prerequisite for salvation, Jesus lied to the thief on the cross, never mind countless Old Testament believers.

    yes folks, explain this. how can God save some differently and not all the same. God is immutable, He changes not. God is Just to all, not different salvations to others.

    I believe when Jesus addressed the subject of baptism he was speaking to those who would have a chance to be baptised. Some have never heard of Christ or the gospel and have not had the chance to make a decision. I believe CHRIST will judge them by the light they given by the Holy Spirit. The thief on the cross didn't have a chance to be baptised but he realized his situation and who Christ was and repented of his sin. GOD is not about rituals or hocus pocus. I believe you must be baptised if given the opportunity but if you're killed before you are baptised GOD knows your heart and what you would have done had you been given the chance. Remember Christ was baptised by John to "fulfill all righteousness" and he is our example. GOD's requirements on us are based on common sense and not ridiculous rituals instituted by man. I have heard it said that just as Christ died and paid the penalty of sin (or the second death)for us. He also was baptised to cover those who weren't given the opportunity to be baptised.

    I thank God that i baptize none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; lest any should say that i had baptized in mine own name. And i baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, i know not whether i baptized any other.
    For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 1Cor.1:14-17

    why wasn't baptism important for salvation, because it is not required for salvation. period.

    The baptism of John, whence was it? from heaven, or of men?
    Mt.21:25

    here's some facts: it's John the Baptist, not John the Baptizer like some religious folks would have you believe. like you said Jesus was baptize of John.
    so was the baptism of John authorize from heaven?

    so what is the purpose of baptism? did you not read my other replies. a scriptural believer that becomes a member of a scriptural church must be baptized. this doctrine is called believer's baptism. you become a member into a local visible church after you are baptized. but salvation is still and only a free gift, not baptism. you don't have to be a member of a church to be saved.
    read Acts in the first chapter; how the disciples and they numbered about 120 of them (the first church), that they were looking for the 12th apostle to take part in the great commission. the qualifications were they had to have the baptism of John.
    the other purpose baptism does is it brings out of what the Lord has done in us after we were saved. it's a type of the death, burial and the resurrection of the Lord that we have experienced after our birth.

    Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
    Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as(the same manner} Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
    For if we have been planted together in the likeness(similarly) of his death, we shall be also in the likeness{similarly) of his resurrection: Rom.6:3-5

    sorry but your doctrine does not hold water, much less the other ones.

    For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    Not of works{anything other than Jesus Christ alone), lest any man should boast. Eph.2:8,9

    Amen.


    [Edited by arc8 on 08-18-2004 at 12:08 PM]

  9. #35
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Memphis TN USA
    Posts
    6,945
    John was the son of a priest and the grandson of 2 preist. He was a Nazarine and probably studied with the Essenes. He knew all about the Jewish rituals. He modernized one of them. Did God tell him to do that? God endorsed it when Jesus was baptised and the holy spirit spoke to them.
    If the superheat ain't right it ain't charged right.

  10. #36
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Franklin
    Posts
    256
    Originally posted by kim
    John was the son of a priest and the grandson of 2 preist. He was a Nazarine and probably studied with the Essenes. He knew all about the Jewish rituals. He modernized one of them. Did God tell him to do that? God endorsed it when Jesus was baptised and the holy spirit spoke to them.
    Also notice that John was an ordinary man not part of the "clergy" or "licensed ministers" of his day and HE BAPTIZED JESUS! Maybe that is why Jesus hates the " deeds of the Nicolations".

  11. #37
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    East Grand Forks, MN
    Posts
    1,373
    John was the son of a priest and the grandson of 2 preist. He was a Nazarine and probably studied with the Essenes. He knew all about the Jewish rituals. He modernized one of them. Did God tell him to do that? God endorsed it when Jesus was baptised and the holy spirit spoke to them.

    he was from the Levi clan. of course he would know everything about the ceremonial laws of the Jews.
    why did the Lord get baptise?
    can anyone answer this? yeah i know to fulfill all righteouness. but what is the purpose of baptism?
    why did the Lord even bring up "I in like wise will tell you by what authority I do these things."?
    the chief priest asked him what gave him authority to do those things.
    doesn't this insinuate that the Lord had authority but He wouldn't tell the preist till they answer him correctly about John's authority to baptise; because the Jews knew this was out of the ordinary(baptism).
    You folks need to put on your thinking caps on.

    Also notice that John was an ordinary man not part of the "clergy" or "licensed ministers" of his day and HE BAPTIZED JESUS! Maybe that is why Jesus hates the " deeds of the Nicolations".

    did not Jesus have a license to preach? and if so, was from men or God?
    From that time Jesus began to preach, and say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Mt.4:17
    what about this "In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judea, And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.Mt.3:1,2
    please explain this. was this of God?
    John is in the New Testament!!!
    They both preach the same gospel!!!
    shall i go on.
    where are your verses to back up your doctines?


    [Edited by arc8 on 08-18-2004 at 01:23 PM]

  12. #38
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Dallas/Ft Worth, TX
    Posts
    439
    I will err on the side of caution and try and follow Jesus' example. I am convinced in my own mind that after one is saved he should be baptized.

  13. #39
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    East Grand Forks, MN
    Posts
    1,373
    [I will err on the side of caution and try and follow Jesus' example. I am convinced in my own mind that after one is saved he should be baptized.

    yes i agree with the last part of this statement.
    as long as the doctrine of Baptism is correct, which brings us into the membership of a local visible church.

    don't we want to be in God's will. how can we? if we are not a member of a scriptural local Church (a new testament type). God commands that we serve him in a church.
    did you know that the Great Commission was given to the church and not to individuals, not to para organizations, not to mission boards, not to home bible studies, not to religious organizations, not to religious schools, etc.

    Believer's baptism, to be scriptural, must involve the proper candidate(must be born again), the proper mode or method(immersion not sprinkling), the proper motive(to publicly show the world a believer's new life in Christ and become a member of Christ's local assembly), the proper administrator or authority to administer scriptural baptism. who did God give this to? i already said it, but study the Word of God and see if ain't so.





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