Will the true church be persecuted in America in the future? - Page 2
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  1. #14
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    Re: Re: If the dumbocrats gain office

    Originally posted by johnl45
    Originally posted by rob10
    We will suffer a lot more persecutions. Laws like not being able to speak out against abortion and homosexuality will be put on the books.
    I'd support anyone who would shut up all the right-wing religious nuts. Bring on the dumbocrats.
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  2. #15
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    I'd support anyone who would shut up all the right-wing religious nuts. Bring on the dumbocrats.

    are we not persecuted already? it's just that it hasn't been sanctioned by the government yet? made law that is.

    so much hate from the ACLU crowd, the liberals, the socialist, the communists, etc.

    is this not Satan inspired?

    it is true that those who are a red blooded democrat, must be anti-christ without their full knowledge.

    i'm sure this can be proven.

    but why waste my time.

    For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not. Ecc.7:20

  3. #16
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    To answer the original question: Of course the church will be persecuted in America. It's almost there. "Shutting up the right wing nuts" by its very nature is a violation of freedom of speech. Yet the that's exactly what the "tolerant" left wants. Canada is on the verge of declaring that teaching the Bible is a hate crime (or did they finally do it?).

    I don't consider the current climate of constant ridicule and even hatred from the left to be persecution. Unlike the left with their hate crimes bull, I don't advocate thought police. They can think what they want and shout it from the mountain tops all day long. But it's funny how on the one hand they'll dismiss the hatred aimed our way yet on the other they'll declare all sorts of minority groups as well as the gay lobby to be persecuted because they are not given special rights. Equal protection under the law isn't enough for them. We must actively approve of their ways or we are called bigots.

  4. #17
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    It is just like the blacks. I saw a talk show one time. Everybody called this white lady a bigot because she admitted that she did not have any black friends. She did not have to act prejudicial way, she was prejudice because she did not actively support black lifestyle.
    If the superheat ain't right it ain't charged right.

  5. #18
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    The church building just gets in the way of finding the real church inside of you. "Where ever 2 or more of you are gathered togather, I will be there." The church is the congregation of fellow beleivers.

    I have talked with people in Amish communitees. Some people talk about the white people and the Amish. I have never seen an Amish that was not white, but some people treat them like they are less than good white americans. The Amish are practicing a seperate lifestyle like many christians claim is best. They are subjected to lots of bigotry because of it.
    In some ways, it would be easier if there was more persecution. All of Jesus disciples abandoned him, when the Romans captured him. Jesus could easily have walked away from all that mess too, but he stood up for what he beleived. It would be easier to prove your faith if it was not popular opinion. There is nothing to stand up for if nobody is against you. Abraham had to leave the country of his birth to practice his religion.
    If the superheat ain't right it ain't charged right.

  6. #19
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    The more important question is who is the true church?
    Scripture identifies the true church as those who obey the commandments of GOD (10 commandments) and have the faith of Jesus...REV 14:12 and yes this country will lead the world in persecuting the church. How it will happen is not clear to me but it will happen probably after some kind of disasters. The government already has plans to suspend the constitution and basically institute marshall law in the event of a massive disaster like a nuclear weapon strike. This plan is called Operation Garden Plot. And no it wasn't created by Bush it has been around for years. I have a copy of it. Very dull reading.
    The question is who is the true church? The majority of churches calling themselves christian do not keep the whole 10 commandments even tho they claim to. The 4th commandment is broken every week by keeping Sunday holy instead of the Sabbath day (Saturday). I am no preacher but I have researched this subject quite a bit and have found no evidence of a change from Sabbath to Sunday in the Bible. The early church kept the sabbath up until around 325 AD and then it started to be changed to Sunday. The Roman Catholic Church takes the credit for changing the sabbath to sunday. This is from their own writings. When the reformation happened the reformers took some of the beliefs of the catholic church with them when they left. Many christian beliefs are not in fact christian in origin but are taken from the mixture of paganism and christianity that happened in the early years of the church i.e. the immortal soul, eternally burning hell, even the "afterlife" are not biblical in origin. Find a church that keeps the biblical sabbath and you will be on your way to finding the true church.

  7. #20
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    Well, look a little more closely, Woody. The true church is made up of those who have received Jesus Christ as their personal Savior only. That's all that is required.

    Why would God not require anything else? Simply because He knows we could never do that of our own abilities or strength. Those who think thay can fool themselves. Obeying teh Ten Commandments is called "works". If you look at Ephesians 2, you will see, particularly in verses 8-9, that salvation is not from what we do but from grace...a free gift. Other Scriptures explain that if we receive that gift, in gratitude we will make earnest attempts to obey the law (Ten Commandments) and that pleases God very much. How much we attempt to obey the law then determines our reward in Heaven.

    Now, I don't expect you to believe me. I expect you to challenge what I posted but don't challenge me unless you can prove it first having read it for yourself. No, I will not give you chapter and verse. What I do expect is for you to look it up for yourself...read it for yourself. And don't go to some philosophical book. Go directly to the Word of God. Therein lies all the answers. (That's right, Remember, ALL the answers.)
    No reserve. No retreat. No regrets.

    For those who have fought for it, freedom has a sweetness the protected will never know.

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  8. #21
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    have you read your bible lately?

    The more important question is who is the true church?
    Scripture identifies the true church as those who obey the commandments of GOD (10 commandments) and have the faith of Jesus...REV 14:12


    Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
    Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
    For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is everyone that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
    Wherefore then serveth the law?
    for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
    Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
    God's Word.

    What comprises a church?
    let's see what the first church had, the one that Jesus Christ built.
    1. baptize believers - read Acts 1:15-26
    the gist is, all church membership are made up of baptized believers.
    2. you must be saved, washed in the blood(sanctified) before being baptized - read Acts 8:26-39
    3. it must be the baptism of John the Baptist. i mean that it must be a church that is authorized to baptize. the first church baptism was from John. God gave John the authority to baptize first. all members of the first church had John's baptism, even the Lord, to fulfill all righteousness. this is where it gets sticky, there has always been a link to the first church in all ages, because only the church that Jesus started is authorized to start another church and so on, not these Johnny come latelies.
    4. the Word of God - His word is the faith and practice of a true church. Jesus gave his life for the church, and it's not an invisible church.

    of course the believers tries to keep the ten commandments - read 1John chapter one. BTW this applies only to the saved, not the lost.

    and yes this country will lead the world in persecuting the church. How it will happen is not clear to me but it will happen probably after some kind of disasters. The government already has plans to suspend the constitution and basically institute marshall law in the event of a massive disaster like a nuclear weapon strike. This plan is called Operation Garden Plot. And no it wasn't created by Bush it has been around for years. I have a copy of it. Very dull reading.

    interesting, i know that it is not in the bible.

    The question is who is the true church? The majority of churches calling themselves christian do not keep the whole 10 commandments even tho they claim to. The 4th commandment is broken every week by keeping Sunday holy instead of the Sabbath day (Saturday). I am no preacher but I have researched this subject quite a bit and have found no evidence of a change from Sabbath to Sunday in the Bible. The early church kept the sabbath up until around 325 AD and then it started to be changed to Sunday. The Roman Catholic Church takes the credit for changing the sabbath to sunday. This is from their own writings. When the reformation happened the reformers took some of the beliefs of the catholic church with them when they left. Many christian beliefs are not in fact christian in origin but are taken from the mixture of paganism and christianity that happened in the early years of the church i.e. the immortal soul, eternally burning hell, even the "afterlife" are not biblical in origin. Find a church that keeps the biblical sabbath and you will be on your way to finding the true church.

    we all know that the Lord rose on sunday, the first day of the week.
    but do we know that Jesus said nothing of the fourth commandment? yes he mentions all the others several times in his ministy, but never does he bring the fourth commandment up.
    The new testament churches had services on sunday. Read Acts 20:7 and 1Cor. 16:2.

    i wouldn't trust the organized church, they don't even know the Word of God!

    the church does not comprise of the sabbath, it was for the JEWS!

    i think you need to study some more, it actually takes time, it just can't be done on a whim.

    to answer those before i get accuse of knowing it all, it was hard work and of course cooperation from the Holy Ghost, He leads in all truth.
    before you think i'm hearing voices, the bible is the one that speaks to me.
    before i get accused of being a fanatic, what's it to you if i believe that God's word is the final authority in our lives, whether it be the church, the government, and our personal lives.

    really i'm a nice guy; the things i know i will voice it, the things i don't understand, i will tell it. But it all goes back to the final say, God's.

    [Edited by arc8 on 08-17-2004 at 09:42 AM]

  9. #22
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    I knew I would stir something up by my post. Really I'm not going to argue with any of you because you are set in your ways and do not want to even consider that maybe you have missed something. I am not being judgemental to anyone because every one is at a different point in their spiritual life and have to find things out for themselves. I assure you I have studied the sabbath issue from a biblical perspective quite extensively. There is no evidence of sunday being blessed and sanctified by GOD. Although there is ample, I dare say overwhelming evidence of the 7th day being the true day of worship. Moses kept the sabbath, Daniel kept the Sabbath, Jesus kept the Sabbath, after he was crucified they wouldn't even give him a proper burial according to jewish custom because the sabbath was drawing near. Jesus even kept the sabbath in his death because he arose on the first day. The apostles kept the sabbath. Even the early christian church kept the sabbath. Also we know from prophecy that we will keep the sabbath in the new world(Is 66:22-23). Again I am not going to argue the validity of keeping the 4th commandment because to anyone who seriously studies the subject from a biblical perspective it is obvious. Also while I am firmly convinced of the sabbath I am not going to condemn anyone who disagrees with me. You have freewill to decide for yourselves. I only ask that you search the scriptures yourselves.
    My comments on the catholic church and the reformers is history and there is plenty of documentation on the subject. The sabbath was changed to sunday by the roman catholic church and not because Christ rose on the first day but because it was politically expedient at the time to combine some aspects of paganism and christianity in order to bring more of the romans into the church because they were mostly pagan then. Again this is history I didn't make it up. I am not a catholic basher either. My wife was catholic when I married her and her whole family is catholic.
    I just threw the operation garden plot thing in there to make the point that there is a plan that could be implemented by the government in case of a national emergency that could have the end result of persecuting the church.
    I am not going throw insults at anyone for their beliefs. If you have any questions of why I believe this way I would be happy to try and answer them. Just keep it civil please.

  10. #23
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    Seventh Day Adventist, Woody? I have no problems with worshipping on Saturday...or Tuesday or any other day of the week. If you're SDA, the issues of salvation are pretty close to even the Southern Baptists. If we 're going to let Sat. vs. Sun. get in the way of fellowship, we have greater problems than "Which day?"
    No reserve. No retreat. No regrets.

    For those who have fought for it, freedom has a sweetness the protected will never know.

    http://www.airwarvietnam.com/16thSOSGunners2.jpg

    Proud member of KA Club

  11. #24
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    I pray and give thanks everyday.
    If the superheat ain't right it ain't charged right.

  12. #25
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    Yes I am an SDA now. I was raised to be Southern Baptist so I know the teachings of that church. I am the only SDA in my family and my wife is the only one in her family. I just wanted to stimulate discussion. It is not my job to convince anyone of anything that is the Holy Spirit's perogative. I will answer questions to the best of my ability. I am no saint and don't claim to be. But I have done a lot of studying of the bible and have learned a lot about things that most churches do not teach anymore. It seems to me that nowdays most churches are more interested in making everyone feel good instead of teaching truth. That is a shame.

  13. #26
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    you just stirred up more trouble!

    I knew I would stir something up by my post. Really I'm not going to argue with any of you because you are set in your ways and do not want to even consider that maybe you have missed something.

    pardon me, you are not set in your ways. you have considered other possibilities.
    oh brother!

    I am not being judgemental to anyone because every one is at a different point in their spiritual life and have to find things out for themselves.

    hopefully and thankfully not.
    To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, Eph.3:10
    God works thru His Church.

    I assure you I have studied the sabbath issue from a biblical perspective quite extensively. There is no evidence of sunday being blessed and sanctified by GOD. Although there is ample, I dare say overwhelming evidence of the 7th day being the true day of worship. Moses kept the sabbath, Daniel kept the Sabbath, Jesus kept the Sabbath, after he was crucified they wouldn't even give him a proper burial according to jewish custom because the sabbath was drawing near. Jesus even kept the sabbath in his death because he arose on the first day.

    The law was for the Jews.
    explain to me why we don't keep the rest of the laws; ceremonials laws, their civil laws, etc.?
    the Lord even said that he had to keep all the old testament laws, He was a Jew.
    hopefully the gospel isn't wrong in your thinking.

    The apostles kept the sabbath. Even the early christian church kept the sabbath. Also we know from prophecy that we will keep the sabbath in the new world(Is 66:22-23). Again I am not going to argue the validity of keeping the 4th commandment because to anyone who seriously studies the subject from a biblical perspective it is obvious. Also while I am firmly convinced of the sabbath I am not going to condemn anyone who disagrees with me. You have freewill to decide for yourselves. I only ask that you search the scriptures yourselves.

    scriptures please.
    i like to study them myself.

    My comments on the catholic church and the reformers is history and there is plenty of documentation on the subject. The sabbath was changed to sunday by the roman catholic church and not because Christ rose on the first day but because it was politically expedient at the time to combine some aspects of paganism and christianity in order to bring more of the romans into the church because they were mostly pagan then. Again this is history I didn't make it up. I am not a catholic basher either. My wife was catholic when I married her and her whole family is catholic.

    i will look into this, very interesting.

    I just threw the operation garden plot thing in there to make the point that there is a plan that could be implemented by the government in case of a national emergency that could have the end result of persecuting the church.

    do not worry about this or any other conspiracy.
    maybe this is when the Rapture takes place.

    I am not going throw insults at anyone for their beliefs. If you have any questions of why I believe this way I would be happy to try and answer them. Just keep it civil please.

    okay.


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