The future of power generation

[i_got_ideas]

Yes, the pictures are big but it's better for seeing detail.

These are located about 7 miles outside of Washington Iowa on 170th Street.
They were just put up and is truly where I believe the future is headed
in electric production. I would love to have a small 15kw residential unit
in my back yard, maybe someday when I have the $30,000 I'll get one.
There is a company in Des Moines Iowa offering a 12kw unit without storage
which wouldn't be bad either. The residual power left over that the 12kw unit
produces would just be put on the grid instead of into storage. Either way
your energy bill would just be for administrative fees(usually $35.00) to
keep you on the grid should you need it. The reimbursement for the power you
put on the grid would outweight the power you pull from the grid, thus the
energy company would be paying you each month. With that said, it wouldn't
take long for the windmills to pay themselves off.

[hvacbear]

What about hydrogen fuel cells using water as fuel???

[i_got_ideas]

I fully agree, hygrogen is fine for cars but it takes electricity to produce hydrogen, and the windmills can produce the electricity to produce the hydrogen

[JohnB]

The windmills are only there to pacify people until the real deal comes along, as of yet we don't know what it's going to be so we give the tree huggers money for junk to keep them happy.

[ucp]

Originally posted by i_got_ideas
Yes, the pictures are big but it's better for seeing detail.

These are located about 7 miles outside of Washington Iowa on 170th Street.
They were just put up and is truly where I believe the future is headed
in electric production. I would love to have a small 15kw residential unit
in my back yard, maybe someday when I have the $30,000 I'll get one.
There is a company in Des Moines Iowa offering a 12kw unit without storage
which wouldn't be bad either. The residual power left over that the 12kw unit
produces would just be put on the grid instead of into storage. Either way
your energy bill would just be for administrative fees(usually $35.00) to
keep you on the grid should you need it. The reimbursement for the power you
put on the grid would outweight the power you pull from the grid, thus the
energy company would be paying you each month. With that said, it wouldn't
take long for the windmills to pay themselves off.

I dont think you would like the noise, neither would your neighbors. You have to drop the turbine occasionally to maint. You will also need big investment in controls. Check out SEI, they have online classes reguarding Solar/Wind power, good school.

Id bet that farm only installed them becuase of rebates or funds from gov to help finance installation.

That looks like a poultry farm, they have plenty of waste to produce thier own biogas, which many devices can run off of, whats left over is compost.

As JohnB says " The windmills are only there to pacify people until the real deal comes along, as of yet we don't know what it's going to be so we give the tree huggers money for junk to keep them happy.".

Propane and nat gas fuel cells are nifty, you dont nessesarily need hydrogen for fuel cells. Coleman designed a neat little fuel cell you can screw in a little propane tank to get the thing running, think it 1kw.

Most states utilities you will not be getting much payback either selling power back to them at this time.

[snipe70e]

Wind has been claimed the way to go for over 30 years. Look at any high pass like on highway 580 in Calif. They are there. But the only way they make a profit is by govermant subsidy.
Oh and the tree huggers do not like them seems that birds get killed.
Len

[i_got_ideas]

I like what Johnny B says about the real deal coming along later.

Just think of what new products and technology have come out in the last decade. Imagine what will be in 10 more years. There's probably some mad scientist somewhere that will come up with some chemical or perpetual motion device the size of a microwave that will power the average home. I sure wish it would be me but I don't have enough time ...that's right, time, that's all I'm lacking, LOL.


Here government grants for windmills are easy to obtain and you're right UCP, the power companies don't pay much per KW at this time.

It'll be interesting to see what the furture holds, I just wish something would happen sooner rather than later.

[hvacbear]

There are a lot of large wind mills on I-10 Heading east into New Mexico.

[karsthuntr]

There are a hundred or so between Oakland, MD and Davis, WVA they are muc bigger than Idea's posted but the spin at a slow rate so there not that loud but snipe is right bird's are getting killed and so are endangered bats.

[i_got_ideas]

Originally posted by karsthuntr
.......so there not that loud but snipe is right bird's are getting killed and so are endangered bats.

But probably not as many as by cars and loss of habitat.

[karsthuntr]

They counted the bats for a month and they avraged(sp) about 46 a night. We are protecting the habitat by installing bat friendly gates. I don't care about the bird's.

[JohnB]

Wind power has been around as was said for 30 years or whatever if it was going anywhere it would have been there by now.
I was driving my truck the other day the tach said 1500 RPM at 50 mph amazing but I wasn't thinking about the modern motor I was thinking about the first guy that made it work.Then Henry made it afFORDable.
New inventions seem to just be extentions of old stuff made better,windmills have pumped water for many years.
Will we see another great inventor or another Henry who will make it pay.

[alex_in_fl]

Points to ponder:
1. Windmills are hell on birds.

2. Power company pays you about 1/2 for the electricity you provide (their charges are made up of electricity plus distribution). Therefore you can use 5,000 KWH, generate 6,000 KWH and still owe the utility money.

3. Don't know the outcome of the lawsuit but one power company was buying for about 2.5 cents per KWH and selling for 3.5 cents per KWH. Logic was they provide power 24/7 while the homeowner was storing power on the grid AND was not having to go find customers AND windmill only provided power when wind blew. Windmill owner sued... not sure of the outcome.

4. Add solar cells underneath windmills and get more bang for the buck in limited spaces.

5. Windmills are ugly...talk about horrible views...look out the window, see 40 windmills and a puff of feathers as a bird hits one. Yuck.

6. Also, windmills stop the wind so could the neighbor down wind sue for loss of breeze? Or for making HIS windmill less efficient? Holy Wind Wars Batman (and shades of the Texas water wars)!

Alex

[R12rules]

Originally posted by hvacbear
What about hydrogen fuel cells using water as fuel???

Why dont folks do some simple online research and find out what is happening with H2FC???

Do a look up a man named Dr. Billings.

Lmtd made some comments last year, or was it this year? ... made some remarks about H2FC little buildings the size of a storage shed on a home lot.

These little buildings housed H2FC sysems powered from H2O and provided heating for the home as well as energy for the whole entire household!!!

And they didnt need that grid hookup!!!



Admin fee my @#$%!
If they ain't doing what needs to be done with what they already got to work with, financially. I am not about to give them anything for doing nothing!

[R12rules]

Because of regular water interuptions in the city of Lost Angeles, most buildings of any size were required to have their very own potable water holding tanks atop the building.
You can still see them today as you drive by on the freeway.
Nobody thought twice about having back up, or redundancy in something so vital as drinking water.

Now since that east coast blackout, they outa be requiring the same type of thing for buildings, only this time with an H2FC system.

People would flock to anything that was lit up during an otherwise blackout condition.
And people would be much safer that way.

Hydrogen WILL suffice!
Hydrogen is READY!

Detroit isn't. And that, my friends, is the issue in a nutshell.



I got ... I never saw your pix. They refused to display themselves.
However, unless your windmills are verticle "egg-beater" style ... they are yester-year's technology and not modern and effecient.
At least not effeceint enough to be accepted for ROI.

[condenseddave]

An hour and a half ago, coming home from a call, I drove along US Rt 6 through Waymart, PA. Home of the infamous (Regionally infamous, rather) "Waymart Project".

43 windmills producing 64.5 MEGAWatts of electricity.

I can only recall seeing all of the turbines standing down ONCE this year. And that was one dead-ass, muggy day. Every other time I've been around that area, (3-4 times a week) most all of them are swinging their asses off, making juice, and lots of it, not anything huge, but 64.5 MW is 64.5 MW, and that's a LOT of homes.

By contrast, the #1 reactor at TMI is 800 MW, and the #2 (The one best known for it's little 1979 "Mishap") was 900 MW.

You need a sh!tload of windmills, which need a sh!tload of space to make the kind of power that comes from a nuke plant. That space has to be in a wide open area, and in a hilly state like PA, real estate of that magnitude is at a premium, if at all available.

The locals at Waymart hated those windmills, and are still resentful of them. Most of them will tell you that the power from them is being "sent" to South Florida, New Jersey, Texas, and, my particular favorite: "Kansas, where they've got their OWN G**D*** windmills!!!!!!!! "

We've learned a LOT about nuke power since the #2 reactor melted, and steps have been taken to ensure that that particular incident never reoccurs here. Nukes are safe, nukes are "renewable", and more nuke plants should be put on line.

[i_got_ideas]

Originally posted by condenseddave
An hour and a half ago, coming home from a call, I drove along US Rt 6 through Waymart, PA. Home of the infamous (Regionally infamous, rather) "Waymart Project".

43 windmills producing 64.5 MEGAWatts of electricity.

I can only recall seeing all of the turbines standing down ONCE this year. And that was one dead-ass, muggy day. Every other time I've been around that area, (3-4 times a week) most all of them are swinging their asses off, making juice, and lots of it, not anything huge, but 64.5 MW is 64.5 MW, and that's a LOT of homes.

By contrast, the #1 reactor at TMI is 800 MW, and the #2 (The one best known for it's little 1979 "Mishap") was 900 MW.

You need a sh!tload of windmills, which need a sh!tload of space to make the kind of power that comes from a nuke plant. That space has to be in a wide open area, and in a hilly state like PA, real estate of that magnitude is at a premium, if at all available.

The locals at Waymart hated those windmills, and are still resentful of them. Most of them will tell you that the power from them is being "sent" to South Florida, New Jersey, Texas, and, my particular favorite: "Kansas, where they've got their OWN G**D*** windmills!!!!!!!! "

We've learned a LOT about nuke power since the #2 reactor melted, and steps have been taken to ensure that that particular incident never reoccurs here. Nukes are safe, nukes are "renewable", and more nuke plants should be put on line.

But getting all the storage space for all the spent rods is the concern for them. You can't just pile that stuff anywhere. I agree that at this point nuclear is better than fossil fueled plants but we will run out of space to put all the nuclear waste eventually.

[ucp]

Originally posted by i_got_ideas
I like what Johnny B says about the real deal coming along later.

There's probably some mad scientist somewhere that will come up with some chemical or perpetual motion device the size of a microwave that will power the average home.


It'll be interesting to see what the furture holds, I just wish something would happen sooner rather than later.

Be careful what you wish for.

There may even be a very efficient/clean power source available right now and could remove/drastically limit our dependance from/of fossil fuels, but...... This is an oil based economy here and overseas where it counts. Can you imagine what would happen if all of a sudden the need for oil just basically disappeared, Catastrophy comes to mind.

My opionion is if there is such technology available(I would'nt be suprised if it was available), the oil companies and governments will try and suppress it for awhile for different reasons, and some legitimate. Any fantastic technologys would best be introduced slowly from my view.

[alex_in_fl]

How do you get the hydrogen out of water to power the house?

[frozensolid]

Many of the articles I have read on the future of energy recognize nuclear fusion, as the greatest potential future energy source. This process combines atoms instead of splitting them. This is how the sun works.

I remember reading an article where it was suggested anchoring giant turbines out in the Gulf Stream. The energy potential would be enormous. Same basic theory as wind turbines just uses a different fluid.