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  1. #27
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    Jul 2002
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    Franklin
    Posts
    256

    trinity

    A list of the following started by the Catholic church and Constantine around 335AD ( not the early church as in the Bible)

    Trinity
    Sacraments
    Church buildings and building programs
    Pews
    Choir
    Pastor/Priest
    Robes
    Incense
    Tithing
    Membership
    Spectator services vs participatory meetings
    Sunday school and youth groups
    Perversions of the written Word

    I can go on and on and on.



  2. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    SC
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    20,677

    Re: trinity

    Originally posted by JMP
    A list of the following started by the Catholic church and Constantine around 335AD ( not the early church as in the Bible)

    Trinity
    Sacraments
    Church buildings and building programs
    Pews
    Choir
    Pastor/Priest
    Robes
    Incense
    Tithing
    Membership
    Spectator services vs participatory meetings
    Sunday school and youth groups
    Perversions of the written Word

    I can go on and on and on.


    ================================================== ==========

    Actually pastor, priest, and tithing are all found in old and new Scripture.
    Pastor is the same as shepherd.
    All Christians are members of "a royal priesthood".
    Tithing has it's origins in the Old Testament and are carried over into the New Testament.

    (No, I don't want to get into a discussion of "Old Testament" and "New Testament" and their meanings/origins. We all know what I'm talking about and I'm gonna leave it at that.)
    No reserve. No retreat. No regrets.

    For those who have fought for it, freedom has a sweetness the protected will never know.

    http://www.airwarvietnam.com/16thSOSGunners2.jpg

    Proud member of KA Club

  3. #29
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Franklin
    Posts
    256

    Re: Re: trinity



    ================================================== ======

    Actually pastor, priest, and tithing are all found in old and new Scripture.
    Pastor is the same as shepherd.
    All Christians are members of "a royal priesthood".
    Tithing has it's origins in the Old Testament and are carried over into the New Testament.

    (No, I don't want to get into a discussion of "Old Testament" and "New Testament" and their meanings/origins. We all know what I'm talking about and I'm gonna leave it at that.)
    [/B][/QUOTE]

    I challenge you to research these topics yourself with an open mind not influenced by what you have been taught by others (especially your CEO pastor). I did and my walk with Christ is deeper than ever. Todays American church does not resemble the early church.

  4. #30
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    While I agree that many of todays alleged Christian terms and icons are pagan injections of the Roman Catholic Church, priests and tithing are not.

    Both are actually covered as far back as;
    Genesis 14:18-20 Then Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine. He was priest of God Most High, and he blessed Abram, saying, "Blessed be Abram by God Most High, who delivered your enemies into your hand."
    Then Abram gave him a tenth of everything.

    Pastor is a later term meaning "teacher" much the same as rabbi is used.

    The Roman Catholic term "priest" is more taken from the pagan priests that first turned their idol worshipping from the statues of various gods to the statues of Jesus and Mary.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  5. #31
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    Feb 2004
    Location
    SC
    Posts
    20,677

    Re: Re: Re: trinity

    Originally posted by JMP


    ================================================== ======

    Actually pastor, priest, and tithing are all found in old and new Scripture.
    Pastor is the same as shepherd.
    All Christians are members of "a royal priesthood".
    Tithing has it's origins in the Old Testament and are carried over into the New Testament.

    (No, I don't want to get into a discussion of "Old Testament" and "New Testament" and their meanings/origins. We all know what I'm talking about and I'm gonna leave it at that.)
    I challenge you to research these topics yourself with an open mind not influenced by what you have been taught by others (especially your CEO pastor). I did and my walk with Christ is deeper than ever. Todays American church does not resemble the early church.
    [/B][/QUOTE]

    ================================================== =========

    I can't tell if you're saying I'm just believing what someone has told me. If you are, I am quite capable of reading and do read God's Word daily. Everything I have posted here, I have read with my own eyes.

    My mind is not changed,
    No reserve. No retreat. No regrets.

    For those who have fought for it, freedom has a sweetness the protected will never know.

    http://www.airwarvietnam.com/16thSOSGunners2.jpg

    Proud member of KA Club

  6. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    southeast
    Posts
    1,477
    I live my life by nature's principles.for we are all a part of nature,and are all subject to the laws of nature.

    and the jews believing jesus was not the son of god?
    are you saying they think of him as god?
    good luck ,finding that one.

    that is what frame of reference we are talking about,because if jesus was not god,or the son of god(differently than the rest of us)...
    than the entire jist of the new testament is wrong.

    and I again ask you what outside of catholic tradition proves jesus was a god.or in existance at the beginning of time,for that matter.
    and yes I know," If I read the bible it will tell me so."


    and other contemporary "bible" texts to look at are ;but not limited to:
    the creation--
    The book of secrets of enoch(2 enoch)(jewish pseudepigrapha)
    the book of jubilees(jewish pseudepigrapha)
    haggadah(jewish legend from midrash,pseudepigrapha,early kabbalah)
    manichaean creation myths(gnostic)
    the secret book of john(gnostic)
    the origin of the world(gnostic)
    the hypostasis of the archons(gnostic)
    the apocalypse of adam(gnostic)
    the gospel of phillip(gnostic)
    the paraphrase of shem(gnostic)
    the second treatise of the great seth(gnostic)
    creation of the world and the alien man(mandaean gnosticism)
    kabbalah

    the martyrdom of isaiah(jewish pseudepigrapha)
    the fourth book of the maccabees:concerning the sovereignty of reason(jewish pseudepigrapha)
    the passion of perpetua and felicity(christian acts of martyrdom)
    the story of ahikar(jewish peudepigrapha)
    the genisis apocryphon(dead sea scrolls)
    the manual of discipline(dead sea scrolls)
    the damascus document(dead sea scr.)
    the war with the sons of light with the sons of darkness(dead sea scrolls)
    the letter of aristeas(jewish pseudepigrapha)


    the psalms of soloman(jewish pseudepigrapha)
    psalm 16

    the thanksgiving psalms(dead sea scrolls)
    psalm:1,4,5,6,8,9,10,11,14,15,23,25,

    the odes of soloman(jewish pseudepigrapha,jewish christian)
    ode:1,3,4,5,6,7,11,12,14,15,16,17,18,19,21,24,29,3 0,34,35,38,41,42,

    the gospel of truth and the valentinian speculation(gnostic)
    the gospel of thomas(gnostic)
    the hymn of the pearl(gnostic)
    the gospel of the hebrews(jewish-christian)
    the gospel of the ebionites(jewish-christian)
    the secret gospel of mark(christian apocrypha)
    the apocryphon of james(gnostic)
    the gospel of bartholomew(christian apocrypha)
    the gospel of nicodemus(christian apocrypha)

    the infancy gospel of james(the birth of mary)(christian apocrypha)
    the infancy gospel of pseudo-matthew:the book about the origin of the blessed mary and the childhood of the savior(christian apocrypha)
    the infancy gospel of thomas(christian apocrypha)
    a latin infancy gospel:the birth of jesus(christian apocrypha)
    the arabic infancy gospel:the children who were changed into goats(christian apocrypha)

    the apocryphal acts of the apostles and the acts of john:

    the acts of:
    john(christian apocrypha)
    peter(")
    paul(")
    andrew(")
    thomas(christian-gnostic apocrapha)

    the book of enoch(1 enoch)(jewish pseudepigrapha)
    the sibylline oracles (")
    the apocalypse of baruch(2 baruch)(")
    the apocalypse of ezra(4 ezra)(")
    the ascension of isiah(christian apocrypha)
    apocalypse of peter (")
    apocalypse of paul (")
    apocalypse of thomas (")
    christian sibyllines (")

    hermes trismegistusoimandres(pagan gnostic)
    hermes trismegistus:asclepius(pagan gnostic)
    hermes trismegistusn god's bisexuality(pagan gnostic)
    the book of thomas the contender(gnostic)
    trimorphic protennoia(gnostic)
    the thunder,perfect mind(gnostic)


    simon magus
    valentinus and the valentinian system of ptolemaeus
    ptolemaeus' letter to flora
    basilides
    the nassene psalm
    baruch by justin
    marcion
    carpocrates
    the cainites
    the sethians
    the sethian-ophites


    the divine throne chariot(dead sea scrolls)
    the zohar,the book of radiance(kabbalah)
    the mystical theology of pseudo-dionysius(christian)

    plotinus,the enneads(pagan)


    but aside from the stories,and the promises never kept.
    what evidence do "jesus" people have that shows someone they are not feeling the same god of nature that has been around forever.and highlighted and mentioned in the founding of this country.and carried forward by masonic tradition?and wicca,for that matter.

    "does the rose by any other name ,smell as sweet?"







  7. #33
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    East Grand Forks, MN
    Posts
    1,373
    I live my life by nature's principles.for we are all a part of nature,and are all subject to the laws of nature.

    and the jews believing jesus was not the son of god?
    are you saying they think of him as god?
    good luck ,finding that one.


    Think it thru again.

    that is what frame of reference we are talking about,because if jesus was not god,or the son of god(differently than the rest of us)...
    than the entire jist of the new testament is wrong.

    and I again ask you what outside of catholic tradition proves jesus was a god.or in existance at the beginning of time,for that matter.
    and yes I know," If I read the bible it will tell me so."


    and other contemporary "bible" texts to look at are ;but not limited to:
    the creation--
    The book of secrets of enoch(2 enoch)(jewish pseudepigrapha)
    the book of jubilees(jewish pseudepigrapha)
    haggadah(jewish legend from midrash,pseudepigrapha,early kabbalah)
    manichaean creation myths(gnostic)
    the secret book of john(gnostic)
    the origin of the world(gnostic)
    the hypostasis of the archons(gnostic)
    the apocalypse of adam(gnostic)
    the gospel of phillip(gnostic)
    the paraphrase of shem(gnostic)
    the second treatise of the great seth(gnostic)
    creation of the world and the alien man(mandaean gnosticism)
    kabbalah

    the martyrdom of isaiah(jewish pseudepigrapha)
    the fourth book of the maccabees:concerning the sovereignty of reason(jewish pseudepigrapha)
    the passion of perpetua and felicity(christian acts of martyrdom)
    the story of ahikar(jewish peudepigrapha)
    the genisis apocryphon(dead sea scrolls)
    the manual of discipline(dead sea scrolls)
    the damascus document(dead sea scr.)
    the war with the sons of light with the sons of darkness(dead sea scrolls)
    the letter of aristeas(jewish pseudepigrapha)


    the psalms of soloman(jewish pseudepigrapha)
    psalm 16

    the thanksgiving psalms(dead sea scrolls)
    psalm:1,4,5,6,8,9,10,11,14,15,23,25,

    the odes of soloman(jewish pseudepigrapha,jewish christian)
    ode:1,3,4,5,6,7,11,12,14,15,16,17,18,19,21,24,29,3 0,34,35,38,41,42,

    the gospel of truth and the valentinian speculation(gnostic)
    the gospel of thomas(gnostic)
    the hymn of the pearl(gnostic)
    the gospel of the hebrews(jewish-christian)
    the gospel of the ebionites(jewish-christian)
    the secret gospel of mark(christian apocrypha)
    the apocryphon of james(gnostic)
    the gospel of bartholomew(christian apocrypha)
    the gospel of nicodemus(christian apocrypha)

    the infancy gospel of james(the birth of mary)(christian apocrypha)
    the infancy gospel of pseudo-matthew:the book about the origin of the blessed mary and the childhood of the savior(christian apocrypha)
    the infancy gospel of thomas(christian apocrypha)
    a latin infancy gospel:the birth of jesus(christian apocrypha)
    the arabic infancy gospel:the children who were changed into goats(christian apocrypha)

    the apocryphal acts of the apostles and the acts of john:

    the acts of:
    john(christian apocrypha)
    peter(")
    paul(")
    andrew(")
    thomas(christian-gnostic apocrapha)

    the book of enoch(1 enoch)(jewish pseudepigrapha)
    the sibylline oracles (")
    the apocalypse of baruch(2 baruch)(")
    the apocalypse of ezra(4 ezra)(")
    the ascension of isiah(christian apocrypha)
    apocalypse of peter (")
    apocalypse of paul (")
    apocalypse of thomas (")
    christian sibyllines (")

    hermes trismegistusoimandres(pagan gnostic)
    hermes trismegistus:asclepius(pagan gnostic)
    hermes trismegistusn god's bisexuality(pagan gnostic)
    the book of thomas the contender(gnostic)
    trimorphic protennoia(gnostic)
    the thunder,perfect mind(gnostic)


    simon magus
    valentinus and the valentinian system of ptolemaeus
    ptolemaeus' letter to flora
    basilides
    the nassene psalm
    baruch by justin
    marcion
    carpocrates
    the cainites
    the sethians
    the sethian-ophites


    the divine throne chariot(dead sea scrolls)
    the zohar,the book of radiance(kabbalah)
    the mystical theology of pseudo-dionysius(christian)

    plotinus,the enneads(pagan)


    but aside from the stories,and the promises never kept.
    what evidence do "jesus" people have that shows someone they are not feeling the same god of nature that has been around forever.and highlighted and mentioned in the founding of this country.and carried forward by masonic tradition?and wicca,for that matter.


    The Mysteries of God are found and many of them revealed in the Bible. And there will be many more when we get to Heaven.
    The secret things (mysteries) belong unto the Lord our God: but those things which are revealed belong to us and to our children forever. Deut.29:29

    There are: The Mystery of the Kingdom of Heaven,
    the Mystery of the Olive Tree,
    the Mystery of Jesus Christ,
    the Mystery of the Wisdom of God,
    the Mystery of the Rapture,
    the Mystery of God's Will,
    the Mystery of the Dispensation of the Grace of God,
    the Mystery of the Riches of Christ,
    the Mystery of Christ and His Church,
    the Mystery of the Gospel,
    the Mystery of Christ in You,
    the Mystery of the Father and the Son,
    the Mystery of Iniquity,
    the Mystery of the Faith,
    the Mystery of Godliness,
    the Mystery of the Seven Stars,
    the Mystery of the Little Book,
    the Mystery of Babylon,
    the Mystery of the Woman and the Beast,
    the Mystery of the Angels, and so on.

    I can safely say that according to the scriptures you evidently haven't been saved.
    NOBODY goes to Heaven because they are good. period.


    A list of the following started by the Catholic church and Constantine around 335AD ( not the early church as in the Bible)

    Trinity
    Sacraments
    Church buildings and building programs
    Pews
    Choir
    Pastor/Priest
    Robes
    Incense
    Tithing
    Membership
    Spectator services vs participatory meetings
    Sunday school and youth groups
    Perversions of the written Word

    I can go on and on and on.


    A list of the first church;
    baptism by immersion, what else is there?
    the Lord's supper,
    preaching the Gospel, the kingdom of Heaven. Did you know that God places His word above his name!
    the church government, a democratic form,
    church discipline, rarely do you see this in the Catholic Churches: molestation. God will tie the millstone around their necks.
    all the mysteries are to be found in the church. Did you know that God's manifold wisdom is to be found in the church only! The Church that Jesus built.
    God's called out Pastors, did you know that God commands that the Pastors have one wife only and that they have their house in order and under control!
    God's word.

    Btw, these were all practised before Pentecost!!!
    Christ church was started by him while he was here 2000 years ago ministering.


















  8. #34
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    SC
    Posts
    20,677
    You guys are making things way more complicated than they are.

    It is simply faith. It is simply love. It is simply truth. It is simply hope. It is simply simple.

    If you look for God in the man's way of trying to understand Him, you never will find Him. He is right where you are not looking...right under your nose. He is not hiding from us. If you can't find Him in the simplicities, you'll never see Him in the complexities.
    No reserve. No retreat. No regrets.

    For those who have fought for it, freedom has a sweetness the protected will never know.

    http://www.airwarvietnam.com/16thSOSGunners2.jpg

    Proud member of KA Club

  9. #35
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,943
    Originally posted by bootlen
    You guys are making things way more complicated than they are.

    It is simply faith. It is simply love. It is simply truth. It is simply hope. It is simply simple.

    If you look for God in the man's way of trying to understand Him, you never will find Him. He is right where you are not looking...right under your nose. He is not hiding from us. If you can't find Him in the simplicities, you'll never see Him in the complexities.
    Well put. Reminds me of a story of a woman from the Kansas plains who moved to upper state New York. When her parents drove out to visit her she was eager to hear how her mother, who had never traveled outside of Kansas enjoyed the very scenic drive to her home.

    When asked how she liked the scenery mom replied; "it was ok but you couldn't see much through all those trees."
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  10. #36
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Memphis TN USA
    Posts
    6,945
    Nature's way:
    Dog eat dog. Only the strong survive. Ever watch the nature channel. I read a book long time ago "The Generosity Gene" (or something like that). It proved even altruism is based on greed. We expect something better for it.

    God's way:
    Love thee neighbor. You treat everybody with respect, because they are the children of God. You don't get anything in return (except a better world to live in). You do it just because it will make God happy.

    Which would you rather have?
    If the superheat ain't right it ain't charged right.

  11. #37
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    SC
    Posts
    20,677
    Actually, Kim, not all people are God's children. Only those who accept Christ are called His children...in an adoptive sense. Man has separated himself from God and is in need of reconciliation. The atoning blood of Christ provided that and we can now be "adopted" into the family of God.

    Now, please don't get legalistic on me and attack the word "adopt". I'm merely making a point and it is accurate.
    No reserve. No retreat. No regrets.

    For those who have fought for it, freedom has a sweetness the protected will never know.

    http://www.airwarvietnam.com/16thSOSGunners2.jpg

    Proud member of KA Club

  12. #38
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Memphis TN USA
    Posts
    6,945
    Originally posted by bootlen
    You guys are making things way more complicated than they are.

    It is simply faith. It is simply love. It is simply truth. It is simply hope. It is simply simple.

    If you look for God in the man's way of trying to understand Him, you never will find Him. He is right where you are not looking...right under your nose. He is not hiding from us. If you can't find Him in the simplicities, you'll never see Him in the complexities.

    This is so true. You never find what you are looking hard to find. As soon as you stop looking so hard, it is right under your nose. (I try to get Mrs. Kim to find. She goes right to it, because she is not trying too hard.)

    Too many people are too judgemental of others.
    If a person abides by the basic ideals of Christianity, you should praise God that they are saved. You can't get them any further into salvation, if you convince them that your interpretation of God's way is better than theirs. It would be more productive to help find the lost sheep, than to charral the sheep on the fringe.
    There is just so much you can do for the people that do not want to be found. Maybe your work did some good and will help when the guy looks to be found.
    If the superheat ain't right it ain't charged right.

  13. #39
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Memphis TN USA
    Posts
    6,945
    We are all God's children. Some have just decided not to live at God's house. Some just visit on the holidays.

    God is the father of all.
    If the superheat ain't right it ain't charged right.

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