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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    South Dakota
    Posts
    6,579
    Originally posted by hvacbear
    Originally posted by NormChris
    Originally posted by hvacbear
    Had one that blew out a compressor because our controls contractr wired it into the compressor contactor. The unit has a liquid line solinoid valve controled by a seperate t-stat and a time delay wire in series with the time delay in the phase monitor eventually wired into the low press control for the compressor. When the compressor came on 20 min after the solinoid valve opened dumping liquid into the suction it blew it's valves. There were 5 compressors previously and since we rewired it there have been none for over 2 years.
    Right, because you found the problem. But after 5 compressors just makes my point, few technicians are actually capable of performing a proper compressor failure analysis.

    I have been on a number of roofs where there were two or three old compressors still sitting next to the system and the compressor in the system had failed yet again. Not only were the technicians unable to find the problem, they did not even have it in them to remove the evidence of the previous failures. That made my job that much easier since I had several compressors to tear down. Yup! All of them had failed from the same ultimate cause.

    You've seen a compressor graveyard too?

    This is a good example why manufacturers like York, Trane and Carrier are calling for technician certification with NATE plus continuing education to keep certification current. The manufacturers want to reduce their warranty costs caused by technicians who don't have the knowledge to properly diagnose field problems or even install systems properly in the first place.

    Just look at the vast number of questions posted on this site over such a simple thing as charging a system. Even our tech schools seem to be failing at teaching the most basic of service procedures; system charging.


  2. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    1,484
    The more I learn the less I know--Until there is a degree like program developed for the Non-Union HVAC tech, this will always be the case. The NATE certification program falls way short of a comprehensive certification program. I would love to see one of the manufacturers propose a national certification program that required practical testing and continued education programs....AND a better acronym than N.A.T.E.

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    1,484
    If I had the Time, money and frankly--The expertise-- I would love to put something like this together and market the hell out of it so the value would be seen to the homeowner, contractor and technician.

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    South Dakota
    Posts
    6,579


    At York we offer all sorts of upgrade training including how to properly perform a detailed compressor failure analysis.



  5. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    1,484
    We are a Service Experts Co. and our training resources are lacking. I use the internet and download anything of interest so that I can read it during any down time I have. That is about it. I conduct weekly training meetings for our company and I have a difficult time keeping people interested. I have ordered some packaged programs and put together some labs, but It is so difficult to engage 30 technicians with varying experience levels. Even our York distributor here has little to offer, but they have provided us with some pretty sharp guest speakers. Perhaps I should consider joining a union for the educational opportunities.

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    South Dakota
    Posts
    6,579
    Originally posted by james mo
    We are a Service Experts Co. and our training resources are lacking. I use the internet and download anything of interest so that I can read it during any down time I have. That is about it. I conduct weekly training meetings for our company and I have a difficult time keeping people interested. I have ordered some packaged programs and put together some labs, but It is so difficult to engage 30 technicians with varying experience levels. Even our York distributor here has little to offer, but they have provided us with some pretty sharp guest speakers. Perhaps I should consider joining a union for the educational opportunities.

    The York distributors have access to a vast number of York factory classes put on by those of us in the technical training department. We can come to the distributors whenever they request us plus we offer York Comfort U classes over the internet. Comfort U classes are also available through York distributors. They are live classes with the instructor speaking live while showing diagrams, photos, illustrations and even equipment on your computer screen. Plus, you can ask the instructor questions real time and get immediate answers. Ask your York distributor to schedule classes for you. If they don't know what you are talking about they should contact York's training department in Norman, OK.


  7. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    1,484
    Thank You Norm. I will look into it.

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    South Dakota
    Posts
    6,579
    Originally posted by james mo
    Thank You Norm. I will look into it.
    I would be glad to come out to any York distributor and put on a compressor failure analysis seminar. But the York distributor must call me to schedule it. We also have many other topics as well.




  9. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    1,815
    Norm are'nt you in Arizona?

    Also we need to educate the customers to demand quality service. The major manufactureers are a good start ,but when it comes to the people writing the checks then the industry will listen. No one would dream of going to an improperly trained doctor for a 100$ physical but they fork over 5000$ to a hack to make them uncomfortable in thier own home. I don't understand:[
    Quote
    “Engineers like to solve problems. If there are no problems handily available, they will create their own." Scott Adams

    "We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
    Albert Einstein

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    1,739
    I agree, the consumer is very lacking in a basic understanding of what is normal. How many of you have heard, " oh yeah my ac guy did the annual check up and added the required freon like he does every year'\"? Hmm a sealed system is not supposed to leak, well you get the point. I do work for a government group. the money they waste is impossible to comprehend. The problem is they really don't want to know because it is not their money. I don't know how you would educate people on such things with life being so busy. THere have been hacks since there was a need for mechanics, With more people there are more hacks. Just lucky for the owner who gets a good one.
    there but for the grace of god, go all of us

  11. #24
    I appreciate all the feedback surrounding the failed compressors at my building. The service company I have tried to leave out for reasons of decorum is Trane. The compressors that are installed here (regularly it seems) are refurbished. Which makes me wonder if the problem is in the compressor, not the phase monitor or some phantom electrical charge. The other possibly that Shophound mentioned is airflow. This building is in the heart of New York City and the unit was built with noise control in mind so it is possible that there is some interference to the airflow. I’d be shocked if we were loosing so many compressors to airflow, but it is a possibility.

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    1,739
    airflow problems are not rare and can kill a lot of things. I would guess if you are not happy with who you are dealing with in NYC there must be others to take your building on.
    there but for the grace of god, go all of us

  13. #26
    Penny, I assume you are a member of B.O.M.A.

    You should be able to network with some other members and find a referral to a good service company.

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