Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 27 to 39 of 47
  1. #27
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    2,652
    Originally posted by JohnB
    Originally posted by jrbenny
    Can you imagine what would happen if all of a sudden the need for oil just basically disappeared, Catastrophy comes to mind.

    My opionion is if there is such technology available(I would'nt be suprised if it was available), the oil companies and governments will try and suppress it for awhile for different reasons, and some legitimate. Any fantastic technologys would best be introduced slowly from my view.
    The state and federal governments would collapse due to the enormous loss of tax base. Vast majority of your government's dollars for infrastructure comes from fuel taxes. We're talking billions of dollars gone!
    Maybe yes maybe no, politicans are prity quick on their feet if you're after their meal ticket

    [Edited by JohnB on 08-03-2004 at 12:07 AM]

    Yeah...the government could tax the crap out of us for using water instead of oil .
    There are 3 ways to do anything in life; Good, Fast, Slow: You can pick any 2.

  2. #28
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    161
    Originally posted by JohnB
    Originally posted by jrbenny
    Can you imagine what would happen if all of a sudden the need for oil just basically disappeared, Catastrophy comes to mind.

    My opionion is if there is such technology available(I would'nt be suprised if it was available), the oil companies and governments will try and suppress it for awhile for different reasons, and some legitimate. Any fantastic technologys would best be introduced slowly from my view.
    The state and federal governments would collapse due to the enormous loss of tax base. Vast majority of your government's dollars for infrastructure comes from fuel taxes. We're talking billions of dollars gone!
    Maybe yes maybe no, politicans are prity quick on their feet if you're after their meal ticket

    [Edited by JohnB on 08-03-2004 at 12:07 AM]
    Kinda like a trickel effect that would get out of control. I'm confident that world governments will be real slow funding/introducing a cost effective, clean power source.

    It would be a slow thing anyways, who's going to pay to refit the power plants? Is all the big automotive companies going to start refitting right away?

    I think we all will see more heat recovery2power systems first before widespread introduction of renewable energy systems.

    If you go to DOE's web site, you will see a lot of research being done to convert waste heat to power. Its easily done, they take waste hot gasses/liquids and force thru a heat exchanger which has a refrigerant around it, it boils off, high press gas to microturbine then to a condenser. Liquid ref pump then pushes liq ref back to high temp heat exchanger and the cycle continues. Its called the Organic Rankine Cycle, same principal as steam generation but is closed loop and uses refrigerants.

  3. #29
    ucp has a good point. Energy based/derived power generation will likely be around for a long time. Even systems with compound waste heat regeneration will use some energy to create the "waste" energy. There is a big push by the scientific community to devise a system that squeezes every drop of energy from nuclear waste, and thereby eliminating a need for disposal.

    There are alternative power sources that require no energy consumption to create, but are currently not viable to invest in, due to the nature of their control and the technology available.

    As stated earlier, the petroleum based economys of the world would falter, and someone would have to figure out how to seize the worlds water supply in order to charge for a hydrogen based power source.

    I wouldn't sell utility stocks just yet. Rather be prepared to pay more for your monthly bill.

  4. #30
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Posts
    1,864
    As stated earlier, the petroleum based economys of the world would falter, and someone would have to figure out how to seize the worlds water supply in order to charge for a hydrogen based power source.

    Seize the water supply.
    We're almost there.
    Remember when bottled water came out and everyone said no way will I pay for water. Now you're paying $1 to$2 dollars a bottle.Isn't that about $6 to $12 a gallon.
    In Ontario if you take more than personal use you have to have a permit. It's only a small jump to have a permit for personal use.
    The biggest reasons we will use petroleum for years to come, we will not run out in our life time, there is to much money involved.
    The only reason it is even on the table is to satisfy the tree huggers.

  5. #31
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    2,652
    We only have to notify the city if filling a pool over 1500 gallons....and then they actually give you a cut rate for the amount of gallons you are puting in the pool .
    There are 3 ways to do anything in life; Good, Fast, Slow: You can pick any 2.

  6. #32
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    161
    Originally posted by no8no3
    ucp has a good point. Energy based/derived power generation will likely be around for a long time. Even systems with compound waste heat regeneration will use some energy to create the "waste" energy. There is a big push by the scientific community to devise a system that squeezes every drop of energy from nuclear waste, and thereby eliminating a need for disposal.

    Your right, the recovery systems appear to have at this time at best 40% efficiacy, whatever that means. I think the other 60% is losses in running the darn things. From what Ive read the biggest hurdle is its not real viable to recover low level waste heat, of which there is a lot more of.

    DOE has lots of Grant money available for researching viable systems to recover low level waste heat efficiantly(especially based on ORC).

    Those combined heat and power systems(CHP) look intresting for our near future.

  7. #33
    If the DOE wants to push some money my way, i have some really good ideas how to solve this whole issue. If there could be a collaborative effort by big oil, and the tree huggers, I think that the combination of fossil fuels and alternative energy could rule as a dominant force for a couple of more centurys.

    You cant just do away with the existing infrastructure without chaos, but an effort directed at the phase out of petroleum based energy, an inevitable event anyway, would be a lot more paletable to both the light bill paying citizen and the mega rich oil folks. So far, many have touted this, but none agree.

    They are making us phase out freon, Why not oil? Of course the time frame will have to be greater, but everyone wins. I think everyone can agree, tree hugger or not, that oil has done more harm to our enviornment than freon could ever do.

  8. #34
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Delaware
    Posts
    350
    Originally posted by no8no3
    They are making us phase out freon, Why not oil? Of course the time frame will have to be greater, but everyone wins.
    What do you think the Kyoto Protocol is really all about? The one the US has chosen not to ratify yet is only the first step towards a 'carbon free' economy (translated as no oil or coal use for energy). No carbon based fuel usage equals no carbon dioxide emitted to the atmosphere. Less potential climate change (global warming).

    There will always be losers when there are changes this big. Win / win is a fantasy. As of now the potential losers have more political power than the potential winners. At some point the balance of power will shift and the most likely reason will be economic due to the cost of oil.


  9. #35
    The Kyoto protocol has come about at the wrong time. The energy guru's have just gotten through or are in the process of trying to clean up their process by spending millions on scrubber's and the mining of cleaner burning coal. The good ol' EPA, once again has mandated the changes in an attempt to "look busy" to the american public.

    I liken this attempt to a prosecutorial "deal" as seen nightly on Law and Order. 2 months of community service in lieu of 7 death sentences and a trillion dollar fine....If you plead guilty. I simply dont see the logic in asking these guy's to shut down completely, after finally making them do something...anything about the clean air issue.

    I also have to look upon this deal with the attitude of a blue collar, paycheck earning, consumer which will most likely be the one to bear the largest share of the monetary burden. Every time the government has mandated a change in any industry, somehow we have to pay.

  10. #36
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Kathleen GA
    Posts
    236
    Kyoto Protocol is a bunch of hype by self serving 2nd and 3rd world nations. By imposing energy consumption limits they hope to criple the USA. Take China for example. China was going to be allowed to dump huge amounts of CO2 into the air with no penalties.

    The KP would have destroy life as we know it here in the USA (and most other 1st world nations) without slowing global warming by a cat's meow. The reason is that CO2 is not the problem and there is no global warming.

    Remember back in 1990-1991 time frame global warming was all the rage. The very next year was one of the coldest years on record and global warming alarmist disappeared.

    Also, just 25 years ago many of the global warming alarmist were predicting an ice age!

    Freon is being cut out to protect the ozone layer - something completely different from global warming.
    The average Joe does not realize that the ozone layer is self renewing. The thinner it gets the more UV light penetrates the atmosphere. The more UV light penetrating the atmosphere the more ozone is produced. God made a wonderful circle and a wonderful planet that balances out just about everything.

    Alex

  11. #37
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Kathleen GA
    Posts
    236
    R12:

    Again, I ask, how do you get the H2 gas from the water? I can and have done the research. How do you get the Hydrogen from the water?

  12. #38
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    161
    Electrolysis

    If you took a battery and attached 1 lead/wire/probe to positive and 1 lead/wire/probe to negative, drop both in a glass of water(Not the battery). You will see gas forming on both pos and neg leads in water. 1 is hydrogen and one is oxygen.

  13. #39
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Kathleen GA
    Posts
    236
    And how do we get the power for electrolysis?

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Comfortech Show Promo Image

Related Forums

Plumbing Talks | Contractor Magazine
Forums | Electrical Construction & Maintenance (EC&M) Magazine
Comfortech365 Virtual Event