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  1. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    South East, MO
    Posts
    400
    Originally posted by air1
    If you work for a union and vote republican you should quit your job and work for a company where your wages and benefits are determine by supply and demand.


    [Edited by air1 on 07-29-2004 at 03:39 PM] [/B]



    Spoken like a true Socialist air1. You must work for the government . Do you know where your wages come from?
    I believe in the dignity of labor, whether with head or hand; that the world owes no man a living but that it owes every man an opportunity to make a living.
    ***********
    A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined,
    but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a
    status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them,
    which would include their own government.
    --George Washington

  2. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    2,432
    When multiple companys get together and decide how much to charge there customers, it's called bid-rigging. When multiple workers get together and decide how much to charge there employers, it's called a union.

  3. #29
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    South Dakota
    Posts
    6,579
    I learned first hand and not too long ago that unions don't appreciate those who strive for excellence or change in general. They just want people who pay their dues and fall in line with the party line. No thinking is allowed!


    And, when you see mismanagement or corruption you are to keep your mouth shut or you are gone.

    If I say any more, they will send Vinny to visit me.

  4. #30
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    South Dakota
    Posts
    6,579
    In addition, union members who vote the union endorsement in elections are single issue voters who are only voting on economics. They don't care what the canidate stands for on moral issues. That means they don't have any principles or personal character. They are saying "Just show me the money". Nothing else matters to them.




  5. #31
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    in a house, Appomattox, Va.
    Posts
    3,429
    If I worked where there were unions and non-uninons, I'd work for less with the non-unions. I'd have a job longer, and work enough in that time to make up for the losses union guys take while on strike.
    You go on strike when your employer is looking at bankruptcy? Not a good idea to me, especially when they can go overseas and get by much easier. Its like killing the goose that laid the golden egg.
    There's a few factories here competing with China for market share, and still holding on, but they'd be gone in a year if the union moved in.

    Unions were supposed to protect the worker from things which are now overseen by organizations like OSHA and child labor laws. What are they doing for people nowadays?
    Col 3:23


    questions asked, answers received, ignorance abated

  6. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    chicago suburbs
    Posts
    4,422
    Originally posted by billygoat22
    If I worked where there were unions and non-uninons, I'd work for less with the non-unions. I'd have a job longer, and work enough in that time to make up for the losses union guys take while on strike.


    does the union go on strike weekly??
    FILL OUT YOUR PROFILE!!

  7. #33
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    in a house, Appomattox, Va.
    Posts
    3,429
    Seems sometimes they go on strike everytime their contract is up with the co, and of cousre the local news is there is make an issue of it. Unfortunately, it sometimes takes several months before everyone goes back to work, and both sides lose money in the bargain.
    I also don't like the idea of a quota for the day, some of the unoin people I've seen consider a quota as a maximun value, and nobody in one union helps anyone else on a site in another trade because its not their job. But it could be I just met up with some bad attitude types.
    Col 3:23


    questions asked, answers received, ignorance abated

  8. #34
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    422

    Never worked at one myself but.......................

    Originally posted by billygoat22
    Seems sometimes they go on strike everytime their contract is up with the co, and of cousre the local news is there is make an issue of it. Unfortunately, it sometimes takes several months before everyone goes back to work, and both sides lose money in the bargain.
    I also don't like the idea of a quota for the day, some of the unoin people I've seen consider a quota as a maximun value, and nobody in one union helps anyone else on a site in another trade because its not their job. But it could be I just met up with some bad attitude types.
    ......... I've heard of a situation at a ship building place here in Maine where if you wanted to plug in an extension cord to have power for a drill or what-ever................can't do it yourself......... you gotta go get an electrician to plug you in cause that's HIS job as an electrician.
    Must be real productive.
    Also hear that sometimes workers are told to slow down cause they don't want to get ahead of schedule and risk being accused of over-bidding the work (even tho its probably true anyway).
    Unions are not what they "used to be" and certainly no where near what they were originally formed for.


  9. #35
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    SC
    Posts
    20,677
    There was once a time and place for unions. But the original concept of unions has been bastardized and is now anti-productive. There is no union here, my co-workers and I are treated fairly, the boss has an open door policy, I pay all my bills, live well, have money left for weekends/savings, and everyone gets a nice bonus at Christmas. And we DO NOT PAY any union dues.
    I can tell you I trust my boss a whole lot more than I trust any union boss.
    I bet most non-union guys can say the same.
    No reserve. No retreat. No regrets.

    For those who have fought for it, freedom has a sweetness the protected will never know.

    http://www.airwarvietnam.com/16thSOSGunners2.jpg

    Proud member of KA Club

  10. #36
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Posts
    5,773

    Unions, Unions, Unions

    On the one hand unions helped get rid of the slave labor that was going on in good ole USA. Some companies would work their workers from dusk till dawn with minimal pay and no breaks.


    On the other hand, once the union took over and made things better for the workers the backlash was that the workers thought they were entitled everything. They no longer had to earn their way because they felt it should be given to them and they turned arrogant. You give a little, they take a lot

    The Union was a good Idea and helped this country. However, once the arrogance took over and wages raised higher than what the position was worth it just ran up the price of goods.

    I know guys, in the carpenters union making 30 bucks an hr + benefits, who can't read.

  11. #37
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Eugene, Oregon
    Posts
    1,018

    Re: Unions, Unions, Unions

    Originally posted by infwsdm
    On the one hand unions helped get rid of the slave labor that was going on in good ole USA. Some companies would work their workers from dusk till dawn with minimal pay and no breaks.


    On the other hand, once the union took over and made things better for the workers the backlash was that the workers thought they were entitled everything. They no longer had to earn their way because they felt it should be given to them and they turned arrogant. You give a little, they take a lot

    The Union was a good Idea and helped this country. However, once the arrogance took over and wages raised higher than what the position was worth it just ran up the price of goods.

    I know guys, in the carpenters union making 30 bucks an hr + benefits, who can't read.
    infwsdm

    I agree with you in that the unions are mostly responsible for their own demise. They kept pushing the limits to what was fair and created so much bureaucracy that it drove the cost of doing business way up. This created a backlash in society that led to unions being perceived as tyrants. That combined with the connections to organized crime, takes away from the noble intent of unions to alow workers to organize for better compensation.

    I do not work for a union. If I were smart I would have enrolled in a union at a young age instead of putting myself through school and working for non-union shops. If I had worked for a union shop I would be much better off than I am now. I have been in this trade for 16 years and really don't have much to show for it other than a bad back and a kick in the ass. The union whould have put me through school, gave me a decent wage, good health care benifits and a pension that I would qualify for in four more years.

    I have had several union companys want to hire me but they were not allowed to because of union politics. This left a bad taste in my mouth but that's because I was on the outside looking in. If I were on the inside looking out I think I would feel different. I have worked non-union all my life and feel like I was used and dicarded like a expendable commodity. That's why despite my bad experiences I still support unions.

    You might say that a person can do the same in the private sector. I don't know about that. The type of work we do is very physical and I can't imagine a person working for a non-union shop to the age of 65 to collect SS and use his 401K. A non-union shop would find a reason to let you go as soon as you were unable to perform the job. Then what? At least with the union, they will look after you.

    If you had a choice between $15/hr and no benifits or $30/hr with excelent benifits, what would you choose?
    "The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten". --Benjamin Franklin
    "Don't argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience". --Mark Twain
    http://www.campbellmechanical.com

  12. #38
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Memphis TN USA
    Posts
    6,969
    Originally posted by NormChris
    In addition, union members who vote the union endorsement in elections are single issue voters who are only voting on economics. They don't care what the canidate stands for on moral issues. That means they don't have any principles or personal character. They are saying "Just show me the money". Nothing else matters to them.
    Single issue voters ussualy vote for economic issues.
    Anybody that votes for a party, not an individual, is just like the union worker voting for who the man tells him to vote for.
    Ann Coulter says I am a Moron for voting for the best one of 2 people they allow me to vote for. I bet she would have said I was smart when I thought the best man for the job happened to be a republican.
    If the superheat ain't right it ain't charged right.

  13. #39
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    7,817
    The union is a necessay object as well as a non-union atmosphere. The union workers have built just about most of all the major cities and structures we now work in. And the non-union workers get to also build and service those structures.

    Both systems benefit when in balance.

    Where things are wrong and out of balance is in the union management in that the union workers need to clean up their own management. They don't do that for a few reasons that I have observed.

    1) They can't because they are afraid of their own management. After all, most of it is a good old white man's boys club and if you don't follow in line you stand a high chance of getting thrown out. And there is always the threat of some sort of violence involved on top of that.

    2) And non-conformity to any of their real or preceived union rules will bring down the high chance of reprecussion in some form. If a union member questions or makes some serious form of inquiry to an approach or procedurer they will stand a high chance of getting exiled from their system.

    3) Because of the "loyalty without substance" programming involved in the bottom line of union organizations in the extreme, any form of expression about their own unions must be in a positive frame even if that union member is being done in by their own union. That is one reason why only positive inputs are mainly spoken about, including this forum, duing most any union, non-union discussion. There are many union workers that are laid off, used and abused, minuplated in the same way that non-union workers are. The difference is non-union workers may voice their opnions. If a union person voices any indifference they stand a very good chance of being outcasted from the very system they believe they want to be a part of.

    I have a union buddy that is now retired. He is an extremely knowledgable person and loves this business still. He says he can not ride in my service van in the city because if a union person see him he stands a chance of losing his union pension. What kind of freedom and protection is this?

    He has said he will go with me to see some of the systems I work on as he has never seen this kind of equipment. But, he also tells me he can not even carry a tool box for me or help me in any way. His conditioning has run deep.

    This is just one isolated example from many years of experience with unions and non-unions.

    There are lots of highly trained and skilled union people out there...as well as not. And that works for non-union people too. People are people.

    I just wish the union guys would get their own house in order. All of us would be better off.
    "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers it can bribe the public with the public's own money.
    - Alexis de Toqueville, 1835

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