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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Athens GA
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    1,234
    john,do you want to put your aol im on

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
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    68,120
    Quote Originally Posted by REP View Post
    In my area there was a regulator at the tank way before it was piped into the the house.
    How do you do it where you are?
    Tank reg knocks it down to 10PSIG, and then a house/secondary reg knocks it down to 11".
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    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
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    68,120
    Quote Originally Posted by Truman View Post
    The location of the swimming pool heater is about a 100 - 120 ft from the gas meter. The gas pressure at the present heater is very low, about 2" W. C. because of the long run and diameter of the gas pipe, below 1 1/4". This gas pressure will not work efficiently with a 300,000+ BTU pool heater that I need. The pool contractor believes elevating the gas pressure at the meter to 11" WC will provide 4-4.5" WC at the pool heater which is what the heater needs.

    The Gas Company measured the pressure in/out of the meter at 7.5" W. C., similar to what Rep said. Rep, if each appliance has a gas valve to lower the gas pressure to its working level, do I need to worry about the pressure being too high for some appliances?

    Skippedover, if natural gas furnaces have a minimum pressure of 4.5-in WC and a maximum of 13.6-in WC, I would think elevating my gas pressure to 11" WC at the meter wouldn't be a problem for the gas furnace. The Pool heater is a Raypak, model 336.
    Ah. So your contractor is Guessing how to correct your under sized gas line.

    There is a way. But your contractor is going about it the wrong way.
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  4. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    S.E. Pa
    Posts
    6,192

    Cool higher pressure

    If this is NG, you need the gas utility to convert it to a 2 psi system. This will have a 2 psi leg run to the pool heater and another leg feeding the house. If you run a 2 psi line into the house near your main loads, you can then install a second stage psi-wci regulator. This will then provide beaucoup gas to the household appliances. If you just have them change the spring in the meter's regulator to a 12.2 wci system for instance, you will then need to adjust each appliance. Those with standing pilots will need to be turned down.

    If this is LP, you can make a similar setup. One difference is, any indoor MP regulator will need a separate vent line run to the outside per NFPA 58.

    Since you are having low pressure issues already, the higher pressure system would be needed even without the pool heater. Also, you need to check the CFH capacity of your meter. If it is below your load total, it will need to be changed by the utility.

    HTH,

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Montreal, Qc.
    Posts
    780
    The way Hearthman described is the only way to get enough gas pressure to your pool heater while meeting code requirements.

    Whoever is advising you to raise the pressure is an idiot since the maximum allowable pressure drop by code is 1"w.c. at 14"w.c.
    It is only 0.5"w.c. at 7"w.c.

    At 2 psig the maximum allowable pressure drop is 1 psig and a 1/2" line is good for 367,000 btu at 125'

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Atlanta GA area
    Posts
    21,187
    I agree with Hearthman also.

    I would get a LICENSED Plumber out there to evaluate this mess. And be SURE the work is permitted. Insurance co's tend to NOT pay when the source of ignition of a fire is bad utility work.

    Oh, and while the moderator has not flagged this, IMO this is the kind of DIY that could get someone killed. IMO this thread comes under the 'No DIY' rule.
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  7. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    34
    best advice...call your gas co. and you might have to also have a plumber pressent to figure out who will do what work. generaly gas co. is responsible for meter to the street and a plumber can work on anything in side.

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    13
    Per Consumers Gas Co. in SE Michigan, there is no code for maximum allowable pressure drop (i.e., 1" WC at 14" WC). Consumers Gas measured the gas pressure in/out of the meter at 7.5: WC, evaluated the present gas pressure loads of all the appliances in the house, and approved to install a regulator to elevate the pressure to 11" WC. I'm sure they are not 'idiots'.

    I started this thread with questions regarding the effect of the 11" WC on the other appliances in the house. I confirmed the specs for the my boiler (radiant heat) has a max pressure of 13" WC, so it is OK. One of the replies to this thread indicated the 11" WC falls within the a WC pressure range for a typical gas furnace. My remaining appliances are the cook top, grille and hot water heaters.

    I also am not an idiot and understand the liability and safety concerns with the elevated gas pressure. I will use the knowledge obtained from this forum to have an intelligent discussion with a HVAC professional in my area and with Consumers Gas regarding the Pros/Cons and costs to install the pool heater, including meter and/or gas pipe changes, heater, etc.

    If anyone can reply to the questions regarding appliances, I would appreciate it. Thanks.

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Salisbury, MD.
    Posts
    1,480
    You can get appliance regulators installed at each appliance that cannot handle the 11". Make sure you get someone that has knowlege of gas to check each appliance after the switchover. Some appliances, such as ranges, come with appliance regulators. You may have them already.

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Atlanta GA area
    Posts
    21,187
    I am glad this is not my home...
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    North Richland Hills, Texas
    Posts
    14,914
    Quote Originally Posted by Truman View Post
    PI'm sure they are not 'idiots'.
    I wouldn't be so sure about that. If their field people are anything like the ones our gas utility sends out, I wouldn't trust anything they say...
    If more government is the answer, then it's a really stupid question.

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Rochester NY
    Posts
    4,732
    2 possibly stupid questions:

    1: really nice very high eff boiler, why not get a heat exchanger for that and use it?

    2: big boiler and big furnace, 2 crap water heaters? Why no indirect? Accidental design? Abusive contractor?
    Which makes more sense to you?
    CONSERVATION - turning your thermostat back and being uncomfortable. Maybe saving 5-10%
    ENERGY EFFICIENCY - leaving your thermostat where everyone is comfortable. Saving 30-70%

    DO THE NUMBERS! Step on a HOMESCALE.
    What is comfort? Well, it AIN'T just TEMPERATURE!

    Energy Obese? An audit is the next step - go to BPI.org, or RESNET, and find an auditor near you.

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    13
    Quote Originally Posted by tedkidd View Post
    2 possibly stupid questions:

    1: really nice very high eff boiler, why not get a heat exchanger for that and use it?

    2: big boiler and big furnace, 2 crap water heaters? Why no indirect? Accidental design? Abusive contractor?
    I agree, 2 possibly stupid questions.

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