Results 1 to 10 of 10
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Princeton, NJ
    Posts
    581

    Manual J and S now required in NJ to get Rebate

    Not sure if this is broadly known yet but I received a newsletter yesterday from the local Utility company that states in order for a homeowner to obtain any future utility rebates for new AC installs, the contractor must provide proof that a Manual J and Manual S calculation were done.
    Wow!
    I guess this means no more rule of thumb sizing of equipment in NJ. since I'm pretty sure most consumers are going to want the rebate.

    Below is an excerpt that I copied from the news-letter

    Key1

    .....Central Air Conditioning or Air to Air Heat Pump.....
    SEER 14/EER 12/HSPF 8.5 (must be matched system with ARI rating number)
    ACCA Manual J and Manual S outputs are required showing that the installed system is sized with 15% variance of requirement and correctly selected for the dwelling...........

    To ensure that New Jersey residents get the full benefits of an energy-efficient central air conditioner or heat pump (i.e. that it operates as efficiently as its energy rating suggests it should), the rebate will be processed only if your installing contractor submits documentation that the air conditioner or heat pump has been properly sized and installed.
    In the land of the blind.....the man with one eye is king....

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    burlington county n.j.
    Posts
    9,754
    load calcs and start up sheets have been required for years to qualify for pseg rebates.


    they just lowered the a/c rebate to like $100 now, not worth the BS andjumping thru hoops anymore for it.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Cedar Grove, Wi-Sheboygan
    Posts
    1,582
    I think that is becoming the SOP's for alot of the power companies who offer rebates. By assuring the power company that they will be saving money as well as the consumer who is purchasing the equipment they now requore load calcs to be done. If you think about it it kinda of protects the installing company as well since there's no way for the HO to come back and claim the equipment is either over sized or undersized saving the contracting company money and time in the long run, and when you compare that time spent arguing with a HO or power company vs your time to do a load calc which one is cheaper to do ?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Princeton, NJ
    Posts
    581
    Quote Originally Posted by t527ed View Post
    load calcs and start up sheets have been required for years to qualify for pseg rebates.


    they just lowered the a/c rebate to like $100 now, not worth the BS andjumping thru hoops anymore for it.
    I live in central NJ and I had my furnace & AC system installed in April without a manual J or Manual S and I received my full PSE&G rebate which was $700 at the time.

    Here is the link that suggests this is new for central NJ. You can preview the pre-June 1st 2008 requirements and Manual J's were not required.


    http://www.njcleanenergy.com/residen...antage-program

    Key1
    In the land of the blind.....the man with one eye is king....

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    636
    The last time I had to check the City of North Las Vegas for a permit, their requirement read as follows "Manual J is required, and if the result is not 400 sq ft. per ton, you must explain why in writing." Interestingly, in highly sensible climates, such as Las Vegas (desert) Manual J will NOT produce 400 sq ft per ton! Since there is no latent load, you end up with a pure sensible load there, and typically it's 1/2 ton less than what you'd expect by their rule of thumb. Then of course, you look up manual S, and figure out that you need the next size up. Of course they don't require a Manual S, nor does any utility company I've dealt with in Nevada or Arizona.

    It's quite funny.
    This is what happens when I take photos of things OTHER than bad A/C installations:
    Arizona. Photographed: http://community.webshots.com/album/563042864aIFjqw

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by key1cc View Post
    I live in central NJ and I had my furnace & AC system installed in April without a manual J or Manual S and I received my full PSE&G rebate which was $700 at the time.

    Here is the link that suggests this is new for central NJ. You can preview the pre-June 1st 2008 requirements and Manual J's were not required.

    I just had a new 16 seer ac/95% 2 stage Var speed 70k btu system installed but the installer did not do a manual j/s thats needed for the rebate, now $600 from JCPL. I pressed him to do one but he said he didnt know how.. claimed it was old school. I realize its not. but now I am stuck and cant claim the rebate.

    Anyone want to make a couple hundred bucks to do a manual J & S for me? I need to submit the actual worksheets to NJ to get the rebate and I have zero clue how to get it done. I can give you all the necessary info on the house.

    Thanks
    Mike

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    84

    Angry

    I hope they adopt that in Ontario. I hate seeing grossly oversized equipment installed. I try to prepare my customers for the idea of correct sizing and tell them to refer to the heat loss and gain calcs on my report, but I always get "The furnace guy said that's not enough for a house xxx square feet" or "it's big, but it will only run on the first stage, so it's ok" and "my furnace guy has been doing this for 30 years, so he knows what he's doing"

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    1,204
    Quote Originally Posted by malice95 View Post
    I just had a new 16 seer ac/95% 2 stage Var speed 70k btu system installed but the installer did not do a manual j/s thats needed for the rebate, now $600 from JCPL. I pressed him to do one but he said he didnt know how.. claimed it was old school. I realize its not. but now I am stuck and cant claim the rebate.

    Anyone want to make a couple hundred bucks to do a manual J & S for me? I need to submit the actual worksheets to NJ to get the rebate and I have zero clue how to get it done. I can give you all the necessary info on the house.

    Thanks
    Mike
    Call the clean energy program and explain your situation, they maybe able to help if your new system is not oversized.
    Ed J

  9. #9
    Thanks for the response Ed. When I spoke with them they actually referred me to call you at the Eastern Heat and Cooling Council to see if you could help me out. I'm sure you have better things to do however.

    There are a bunch of computer programs out that to simplify the manual J caculations
    One is $50 for a single home.. so it would be worth it to invest $50 and
    get back $600 but I can find any software that does the manual S caculations as well. Even a getting a copy of a worksheet that walks through the S caculation would be helpful.

    Can you recommend some?

    Thanks,
    Mike

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    SW Wisconsin
    Posts
    5,004

    Arrow Two of many steps toward getting the equipments Nominal Ratings'

    Excerpt of the local Utility company's news letter:
    To ensure that New Jersey residents get the full benefits of an energy-efficient central air conditioner or heat pump (i.e. that it operates as efficiently as its energy rating suggests it should), the rebate will be processed only if your installing contractor submits documentation that the air conditioner or heat pump "has been properly sized and installed."
    What is their criteria for PROPERLY INSTALLED?
    So, all they have to do is get a M-J & S, - & New Jersey residents 'will' get the full benefits of an energy-efficient central air conditioner or heat pump, (i.e. that it operates as efficiently as its energy rating suggests it should).

    That is only two of many critical steps, - toward getting the equipments Nominal Ratings'.

    I know one A/C system that is Not oversized, that by testing is getting about 50% of its BTUH Rating.

    How could Utility Companies be so naive? WOW!

    Very poorly designed duct systems & real low airflow plus improper charge, can knock System Ratings even in half.

    Of course there is a lot more... that can knock it way down... - Darrell
    Last edited by udarrell; 06-03-2010 at 05:50 PM. Reason: What is their criteria for PROPERLY INSTALLED?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Comfortech Show Promo Image

Related Forums

Plumbing Talks | Contractor Magazine
Forums | Electrical Construction & Maintenance (EC&M) Magazine
Comfortech365 Virtual Event