Sears towers or like

[coolwhip]

What kind of hvac do they use in these giant buildings? What about the pentagon?...do they have a zoned system?

[R12rules]

BIG .... very BIG.



(chillers)

[compressed]

The sears tower has massive Centrifguals with huge ice banks. There are thousands of Water source heat pumps. I havent been there since 9/11 however it use to take an 1 1/2 to even get into that place. I imagine it has only gotten worse. You use to have to sit there and wait to get into there underground loading docks to unload your tools. The closest parking that allowed service vans was 8 blocks away so you need to unload every possible tool. Then came the contractor elevators. They have 4 friggin elevators for a 100 story building. Usally took atleast 45 minutes to get up once you were inside. Needless to say I dont mind that I no longer have any accounts there.

[Edited by compressed on 07-14-2004 at 03:55 PM]

[747ken]

Hey Compressed,

I've often wondered who services the HVAC in large buildings like that. My guess is that the building owner has a contract with a building maintenance company that provides service. Then the building maintenance co has its own techs or sub-contracts out work to other service providers. Am I on the right track? My gut feeling is that techs who can work on such large scale systems are very knowledgeable and at the top of the pay scale.

[zzonko]

The same HVAC company that built the Sears Tower HVAC system, still mantains a small maintainance workforce in the building. Yes they are highly trained (not Nate) and paid, as are all members of SMWIA Local # 73 (sheet metal workers) and Pipefitters Local # 597 in Chicago, where the Building and Trades Unions are very firmly in place.

The system is a CW/HW (chilled/hot water) system with coils and AHU's located throughout the building. All of the chilling and condensing is done in a different location.

[seabee5701]

I have been an operating engineer for many years,worked hospitals,office buildings,and central heating and cooling plants.Most large buildings have large chillers,boilers,variable frequency drives for air handlers,and a computerized energy management,DDC controls. Don't forget about sprinkler systems,possibly domestic water booster pumps...lots of equipment...largest place I worked was Johns Hopkins Hospital central heating and cooling plant...served 29 buildings,Plant had 5 boilers,4 with dual burners,1 with single burner,boilers rated at 250,000 pph of saturated steam....main fuel was natural gas,with no. 6 oil back-up...chilled water plant was 12 chillers,6-1500 ton trane centrifugals,3-low pressure steam turbine driven worthington chillers,2-trane chillers driven by westinghouse motors-3000hp/3000 tons each,and a york machine with an oversized condenser,compressor was made after a natural gas pipeline compressor,a short squat compressor,that machine would put out 3500 tons,and would not trip out...27,000 tons of chilled water capacity..

[Green Mountain]

Hmmmmm???? What kind of air conditioning do they use in the Pentagon???

Coolwhip. You ain't one of those towel head terrorist are ya?

[secorp]

Most high rises I have been in have a mechanical Engineer.
He oversees a maintance staff that does most of the work. If a chiller barrel needs scoping or replaced they usually call the manufacurer for a recommendation. It pays to be well thought of by Trane, McQuay, Yourk, Carrier and others.

All high rises have some sort of cooling towers. I did see a ten story one time with all spit systems, they had a butt load in the parking garage and a butt load on the roof, a real mess. must have had 100 seperate electric meters. Electric companies usually do not allow this.

I did a wet tap once on a chiller line once, it scared the be-jeebers out of me. we were in the basement with about twenty floors of water behind the wet tap. If the wet tap did not hold, the water would have shot out like a bullet and probably went thru 10 walls.

Most buildings have mechanical rooms with water coils that supply vav boxes.

[seabee5701]

I have been an operating engineer for many years,worked hospitals,office buildings,and central heating and cooling plants.Most large buildings have large chillers,boilers,variable frequency drives for air handlers,and a computerized energy management,DDC controls. Don't forget about sprinkler systems,possibly domestic water booster pumps...lots of equipment...largest place I worked was Johns Hopkins Hospital central heating and cooling plant...served 29 buildings,Plant had 5 boilers,4 with dual burners,1 with single burner,boilers rated at 250,000 pph of saturated steam....main fuel was natural gas,with no. 6 oil back-up...chilled water plant was 12 chillers,6-1500 ton trane centrifugals,3-low pressure steam turbine driven worthington chillers,2-trane chillers driven by westinghouse motors-3000hp/3000 tons each,and a york machine with an oversized condenser,compressor was made after a natural gas pipeline compressor,a short squat compressor,that machine would put out 3500 tons,and would not trip out...27,000 tons of chilled water capacity..

[coolwhip]

No, im not a terrorist but when its hot on those roofs I do rap a towell around my head. Just curious I guess...never worked on that giant stuff. I must say that the few posts were interesting and I learned whats making people comfy there. Thanks!

[i_got_ideas]

I would love to play around with a huge system for a day. Maybe the commerical guys could have a "take the residential guy along" day

[BaldLoonie]

Back to the Sears tower. It has a loop heat pump system or chilled water fan coils or both? The 2 posts conflict each other. Where's the tower?

No towers on the WTC, it used river water to cool the condensers. Must have been some massive heat exchangers!

[icemeister]

I worked with an engineer who had been previously employed with a firm that had done HVAC design work on the World Trade Center towers. I recall that he told me the condenser water came from (and back to) the Hudson river via 6 ft diameter piping.