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  1. #1
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    Lets imagine a compressor that needed no oil to function properly. Would Sporlan TXVs, EPRs, or solenoid valves continue to function in a system without lubricant?
    A Diamond is just a piece of coal, that made good under pressure!

  2. #2
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    Anything else in a refrigeration system needs no oil but the compressor. Oil that is found in the rest of the system is there becouse it is a by product of being moved out of the crancase by the compressor. The only thing oil is used for in a refrigeration system is to lubricate the compressor.
    If you cant find the time to do it right the first time, then you wont find the time the second time around....

  3. #3
    Originally posted by bowman
    Anything else in a refrigeration system needs no oil but the compressor. Oil that is found in the rest of the system is there becouse it is a by product of being moved out of the crancase by the compressor. The only thing oil is used for in a refrigeration system is to lubricate the compressor.
    Amen.

  4. #4
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    Wink

    By the way, FYI
    there's no oil in virgin refrigerant either...
    Hey mosquito, quit biting (slap!!) me...
    Anyone like Josey Wales?
    C'mon, you know I'm right!

  5. #5
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    Thats a pretty high reachin asumption you 2.
    Don't know the answer myself but I would guess that those components are helped by the system lubrication and would last longer with such?

    Watts New, Ohm My, I been Electrically Commutated. Are U2.

  6. #6
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    Jan 2004
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    Dah!!!!!!I know only the quick tempered are allowed to answer this question.......

  7. #7
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    Jun 2003
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    The Turbocor compressors have been out for a while and don't use oil. I haven't heard any complaints about components not working properly due to a lack of oil in their systems. I'm confident Sporlan's stuff would work well, but Alco? I don't know. Roger
    If you don't have the time to do it right the first time, when will you have the time to do it over?

  8. #8
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    Lightbulb

    Bowman, the oil does several other things than lubricate the compressor. It removes heat from the internal compressor parts, deadens sound coming from the compressor, provides a place for contaminates to collect, etc. The oil may screw up the heat transfer in heat exchangers if the amount gets too high, or it may actually improve the heat transfer on smooth walled evaporator tubing by providing a nucleation site for bubbles to form.

    An interesting topic I'm starting to see raised is how to get the non-lubrication benefits of oil in an oil-free system.

  9. #9
    Originally posted by RobY
    An interesting topic I'm starting to see raised is how to get the non-lubrication benefits of oil in an oil-free system.
    Until we get blends to not come apart on us inside a sealed system, discussing the topic of how "oil does us many good things apart from lubrication", I bleieve it's a moot point!

    I mean, what oil can do for us is a one percent issue. What blends do to us when they fractionate is maybe a fifteen percent issue.
    And then the fact they cost so much more. That adds a few percentage points to the equation.
    Then the fact of higher op pressures in some blends, like 507.
    Then there is issue of POE and cap tubes ... that is a multi million dollar problem all in and of itself!

    Roby, I like what you wrote. I like reading your scientific stuff from time to time. Thank you for posting.

    But folks, really .... we got bigger fish to fry!





    just my .02 worth ....

  10. #10
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    Originally posted by frozensolid
    Lets imagine a compressor that needed no oil to function properly. Would Sporlan TXVs, EPRs, or solenoid valves continue to function in a system without lubricant?
    The simple answer is yes. But having oil in circulation or not could have some influence on valve operation, depending on the valve type and design.

    For TEVs having close tolerance fit pushrods, i.e., your two pushrod conventional TEV design, having a very small amount of oil in circulation could keep valve hysteresis to a minimum. For most balanced port TEV designs, it probably doesn't make much difference.

    A small amount of oil in circulation could make any type of TEV tighter seating during off cycle.

    Most EPR and solenoid valve designs should handle no oil in circulation quite well.

    Keep in mind R-404A systems tend to circulate very little oil.

  11. #11
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    Thank you Andy. I thought this was the case, but it never hurts to be sure.
    A Diamond is just a piece of coal, that made good under pressure!

  12. #12
    bryan l Guest
    Originally posted by frozensolid
    Lets imagine a compressor that needed no oil to function properly. Would Sporlan TXVs, EPRs, or solenoid valves continue to function in a system without lubricant?
    We dont have to imagine... The technology is here!! Turbocor

    The industry seems to swing in different directions so often it makes a guys head spin. But one direction that appeals me is the direction Turbocor is going with there new design of the compressor. http://www.turbocor.com


  13. #13
    Join Date
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    Originally posted by R12rules

    Until we get blends to not come apart on us inside a sealed system, discussing the topic of how "oil does us many good things apart from lubrication", I bleieve it's a moot point![/B]
    Blends don't come apart in sealed systems. Even in leaky systems the blends don't fractionate while the system is running. Even if they do fractionate while the system is off, the performance only changes slightly, and recharging with liquid brings back almost all the capacity (~95%) of the refrigerant. It ain't no big deal to work with blends as long as you use common sense! Whether the blend works as well as the original refrigerant is a completely different question, and everyone will have an opinion.

    I mean, what oil can do for us is a one percent issue. What blends do to us when they fractionate is maybe a fifteen percent issue.
    And then the fact they cost so much more. That adds a few percentage points to the equation.
    Then the fact of higher op pressures in some blends, like 507.[/B]
    I would have a completely different weighting system than you. Blend fractionation in use is not a big deal. Eventually, most people wil get comfortable with blends and how they work, and to be honest, there aren't a whole lot of other choices out there. Also the price of blends is cheaper than the price of CFCs, and we all know why.

    Then there is issue of POE and cap tubes ... that is a multi million dollar problem all in and of itself![/B]
    Yes, if a system is abused it will crap out. Nothing new there. The exact mechanism of crap out may have changed with POE, but the same things happened with abused CFC systems. You have traded the acid burnouts of CFC systems for POE cap tube plugging. You won't see refrigerant breakdown with HFC systems because the refrigerant is much more stable. With CFC systems, the refrigerant came apart and caused the rest of the problems. With HFC systems the POE will come apart first and the refrigerant will be intact. Bottom line, the POE is not the root cause of the problem. Mineral oils and HFCs would most likely plug cap tubes from mineral oil varnishing on abused systems as well.

    There seem to be a lot of people who aren't having problems with POE systems, or at least more frequent problems as compared to CFC systems. What are they doing right that others aren't is also a good question.


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