Furnace, humidifier, & tankless (Trane XV variable vs. Lennox G61MPV)

[jmilanski]

Hi all,
I'm putting in a furnace, humidifier, and tankless WH. I've got two good quotes from installers that I like and that did load calcs. This is for a 1500 sqft, 2-story with basement near Boulder/Denver, CO. I also want humidification without heat.

Here's the specs:

#1)
Trane XV95 2-stage variable (unknown BTU)
Honeywell touchscreen thermostat (no model given)
- 10 yrs parts and labor on furnace
Navien CR-240 tankless WH
- 5 yrs parts, 1 yr labor, 12 yr heat exchanger
Trane humidifier model #300 (bypass)
BBB Accredited A+, NATE certified

#2)
Lennox G61MPV-36B-071 (70K BTU)
Honeywell Pro IAQ thermostat
- 10 yrs parts, 1 yr labor on furnace
Navien CR210A tankless WH
AprilAire #600 (no external sensor)
BBB Not Accredited A-, not NATE certified

Based on the equipment, house, and location, what questions or concerns would you have about these two systems? Thanks in advance!

[coolwhip]

BBB is a communist organization and NATE is a scam created by imperialist dogs!

[beenthere]

I would want the automatic Aprilaire. The 600 M could let the humidity get too high.

[jmilanski]

Does the IAQ thermostat have its own external sensor? If so, do I need an AprilAire with its own?

Otherwise, do most people feel that the two are quoting similar equipment? Thanks!

[JJDH]

Both good equip. If I had to choose from a service standpoint the trane all the way.IMHO. better warranty also. That iaq stat might have its own sensor. Definately get the autotrac feature on the humidifier. I would stick with the model 600a, even with the trane system. Ask for that. I dont know alot about that thermostat. If the iaq is used I would definately ask the questions about how the stat would hook to the hum so you get all your functions. odt sensor is a must. The iaq stat does have an outdoor sensor. im unsure on how it controls the humidifier. It might just give the humidity levels. Others here know that stat.

[beenthere]

If they are including an outdoor sensor with the Aprilaire, you don't need to use the Aprilaire automatic one.

Since the outdoor sensor is an option with the IAQ, are they including it?

[Anderson Air]

As I read your post, it says you want humidification without heat. The Aprilaire bypass models don't really do that well of a job without heat, but will produce a small amount of humidity.

I would ask for quotes including some kind of steam humidifier, like the Honeywell True Steam or equal.

To correct JJDH, the parts warranty is (IMHO) better on the Lennox. 20yr HE, 10 yr parts. To bring the labor up on the Lennox, you can ask the dealer about CompleteCare Plus. You can also extend the parts warranty as well with CompleteCare.

[JJDH]

There is two ways for the april air humidifier, manual or auto. The outdoor sensor makes it automatic with the number 56 or 58 control. With just furnace fan the humidifier will put out the same amount of moisture. It is in their book to wire it that way.. As far as warranty goes The trane has a lifetime warranty on the heat exchanger the last I heard. I could be wrong. With lennox and their changes, expensive parts, their complex design and past track record with the g series and pulses, I personally dont trust em. Besides you nearly can only use lennox parts on a lennox. Their recent dave lennox signature series is ok. Beyond that you can keep it.
Trane warranty xv95
Registered Limited Warranty terms include:

Lifetime limited warranty on heat exchanger
10 Year limited warranty on internal functional parts
If the product is not registered within 60 days of installation Trane’s Base Limited Warranty terms will apply.
Optional Extended Warranties available. Extended Warranties can pay for labor and other costs not covered by manufacturer's limited warranty.
Ask your dealer for full warranty information at time of purchase. Warranties are for residential use only, some exclusions may apply.

[jmilanski]

Wow,
Cruising the boards, I thought these two furnaces would be pretty similar (construction, efficiency, blower, thermo, noise level). Maybe they are, and it's the warranty, parts, and ease of fixing that's different. Now I'm wondering.

On the humidifiers, are the Honeywell #300 and the AprilAire 600 pretty similar? Some told me that everyone has copied AprilAire's bypass design, so it doesn't matter much anymore.

[skippedover]

It is impossible for anyone to say what humidifier you need unless the air exchange rate per 24-hour period is known. That requires a blower door test. If the house is loose, you'll need a lot of moisture added to the air to keep the relative humidity levels up. The tighter the home, the less moisture needs to be added. Cold air infiltrating the home (as treated air escapes through holes and other leaks in the home "envelope") contains whatever mositure content it had outdoors. As it warms in the home in winter and the mositure content stays the same, the relative humidity drops because the warmed air could hold more moisture than it has. So you have to add moisture. Reduce the cold air coming in, you reduce the amount of moisture you need to add to maintain a set relative humidity.

I'd vote for the Trane product for the same basic reasons as everyone else. Trust in product design, availability and cost of parts, proprietary knowledge on some models have been issues in the past. Trane on the other hand uses fairly standard technology but they do frequently change vendors for their parts. We install Carrier/Bryant products after years with Trane and the Carrier/Bryant parts seem to be the same 20-years after manufacture as they were the day the unit was installed. Trane will be on their 10th superceded number by then. But that's relatively seamless to the homeowner so I'd still recommend Trane over Lennox. JMO.

[chuckcrj]

As I read your post, it says you want humidification without heat. The Aprilaire bypass models don't really do that well of a job without heat, but will produce a small amount of humidity.

I would ask for quotes including some kind of steam humidifier, like the Honeywell True Steam or equal.

To correct JJDH, the parts warranty is (IMHO) better on the Lennox. 20yr HE, 10 yr parts. To bring the labor up on the Lennox, you can ask the dealer about CompleteCare Plus. You can also extend the parts warranty as well with CompleteCare.

Agree with you on the humidification without heat, a bypass humidifier will not usually keep up unless you have a tight house.

Actually the Trane/Am Std has lifetime HX warranty to the original owner, 20 years to subsequent owner, and 12 year parts warranty.

[jmilanski]

Does anyone else know, if the IAQ thermostat has an external sensor, can it control an AprilAire 600 (non-automatic)? Hate to get the 600A if I don't need to.

Anyone else feel strongly about the Trane XV95 or the Lennox G61MPV? Thanks again!

[beenthere]

The outdoor sensor for the IAQ is optional. Your installer has to order/buy it separate, it doesn't come with the IAQ.

The IAQ can control your 600M.

But find out if your contractor knows you want the sensor. He may not be including it in his quote.