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Thread: Fahrenheit 9/11

  1. #105
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    Originally posted by ozone drone
    Yeah, and then you could ask why he is so concerned about captured combatants in a Iraq prison if he is so concerned about detaining people just because of their race or national origin.

    Makes sense eh?


    Though so. [/B][/QUOTE]

    I saw the movie....don't remember him making a big deal about Iraqi detainees...not saying he didn't mention them...just didn't leave much of an impression on me. The weeping mothers and all that ... it's war and mothers lose sons ...that's a mother's lot in any war.

    What did get my attention was the Saudi stuff. He's interviewing a guy across the street from the Saudi embassy and before long 3 cop looking cars pull up with uniformed secret service people asking what's up. Moore tells them he's making a documentary that mentions the Saudis. They say okay and start to leave and Moore asks the guy ..Didn't know the secret service protected foreign embassies? The guy shrugs.

    I know Moore has an agenda...his views are very slanted against Pres Bush. What is blatant propaganda I can see it for what it is. But some points and questions are worth looking at and arriving at your own conclusion, instead of just saying that it's all total bull****. [/B][/QUOTE]


    Nah, it's all total bull ****.

    http://www.scaryjohnkerry.com/moore.htm

  2. #106
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    The right-wingers are in a stew because Moore exposes the crook Bush and his cronies. Is Bush your friend? I’ll bet not, is he the Saudi’s friend? You can bet on it he’s the best they ever had.

  3. #107
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    Thumbs up

    I'm glad to see you're not letting your education get in the way of your ignorance.

  4. #108
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    Is Bush your friend? I’ll bet not, is he the Saudi’s friend? You can bet on it he’s the best they ever had.

    Obviously not rich and powerful enough to buy countries off.

  5. #109
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    Originally posted by ozone drone

    What did get my attention was the Saudi stuff. He's interviewing a guy across the street from the Saudi embassy and before long 3 cop looking cars pull up with uniformed secret service people asking what's up. Moore tells them he's making a documentary that mentions the Saudis. They say okay and start to leave and Moore asks the guy ..Didn't know the secret service protected foreign embassies? The guy shrugs.

    I know Moore has an agenda...his views are very slanted against Pres Bush. What is blatant propaganda I can see it for what it is. But some points and questions are worth looking at and arriving at your own conclusion, instead of just saying that it's all total bull****. [/B][/QUOTE]

    Protecting foriegn embassies is one of the uniformed Secret Services primary goals. How the hell Moore didn't know that, or why the hell he didn't find out is beyond me.....not really.

    http://www.secretservice.gov/ud.shtml

    <i>In 1970, Public Law 91-217 expanded the role of the White House Police, newly named the Executive Protective Service, to include protection of diplomatic missions in the Washington, D.C.,area. Congress later added the protection of the Vice President's immediate family to the Executive Protective Service's growing responsibilities in 1974.

    After several name revisions, the force officially adopted its current name, the United States Secret Service Uniformed Division in 1977. While protection of the White House Complex remains its primary mission, the Uniformed Division's responsibilities have expanded greatly over the years.

    They now protect the following:

    the White House Complex, the Main Treasury Building and Annex, and other Presidential offices;
    the President and members of the immediate family;
    the temporary official residence of the Vice President in the District of Columbia;
    the Vice President and members of the immediate family; <b>and
    foreign diplomatic missions in the Washington, D.C.</b>, metropolitan area and throughout the United States, and its territories and possessions, as prescribed by statute. </i>

    So more gets on insinuates some big ass conspriacy about people who are doing there ****ing jobs because he knows that Americans are stupid, after all he said so himself.

    As for some of the other Saudi stuff, only three Saudi's were allowed to fly on September 13th and they flew from Florida to Tennessee and the 124 who flew out of the country didn't depart until September 20th, while Moore insinuates that they flew out of the country before regular Americans were allowed to fly.

  6. #110
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    [QUOTE]Originally posted by Wolfetone

    So more gets on insinuates some big ass conspriacy about people who are doing there ****ing jobs because he knows that Americans are stupid, after all he said so himself.

    As for some of the other Saudi stuff, only three Saudi's were allowed to fly on September 13th and they flew from Florida to Tennessee and the 124 who flew out of the country didn't depart until September 20th, while Moore insinuates that they flew out of the country before regular Americans were allowed to fly.
    Thanks Wolftone, stupid and ignorant are not the same thing.
    stupid means an inability to learn, ignorant is not knowing the facts. You presented facts ...I learned. I can't surf the net while at work (I get by with HVAC Talk because it relates to my job) but that's the good thing about the posting here... Moore did make it look suspicious about the secret service...and you removed the suspicion....Moore did imply or outright said that the Saudis left the country on the 13th. The more you guys poke holes in the movie, the more you shed light on Moore's lack of credibility. Which is much better than just trashing the guy with blanket statements that look like just being biased. A point by point refutation of the movie is better.

    [Edited by ozone drone on 07-13-2004 at 04:31 PM]
    How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?

  7. #111
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    Originally posted by James 3528
    I'm glad to see you're not letting your education get in the way of your ignorance.
    LOL

  8. #112
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    Originally posted by ozone drone
    Thanks Wolftone, stupid and ignorant are not the same thing. stupid means an inability to learn, ignorant is not knowing the facts.
    I wasn't suggesting that you were stupid, I was insinuating that Michael Moore thinks your stupid. Ignorant is certainly not a bad word, or it shouldn't be. I am ignorant of numerous things, some of which I should be ashamed of.

    Michael Moore has said;

    DO YOU FEEL like you live in a nation of idiots?

    I used to console myself about the state of stupidity in this country by repeating this to myself: Even if there are two hundred million stone-cold idiots in this country, that leaves at least eighty million who will get what I'm saying.




  9. #113
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    I haven't seen micheal moore's new film yet,so I can't really say anything about that.


    but,
    my guess is that it is as accurate and unbiased as what FOX news network puts out.they all have entertainment value .


    both entities are driven by the same things; money and purpose.(fox news maybe more money than purpose)

    and both have broken into the mass psyche,whether anybody agrees with them or not.

    the simple fact ,people thinking in their frame of mind(even to refute them),have been imprinted with that perspective.for or against.


    so even if the movie turns out to be a movie ,like all others.
    from a biased perspective(even ,especially documentaries)


    Bush and this administration are: crooks,inept,dangerously close to being treasonous,and at least open to serious questions of conflict of intrest.and lacking the ability to know what is moral and what is not.

    and for this team of glorified captains of industry,the world is becoming a more gloomy place.

    you can't go into the political isles of a bookstore anymore without seeing 25-50 books about how this administration has broken: oaths,treaties and the public trust and possibly laws.high crimes and misdemeaners.


    and considering the gift of 9-11,and their immunity from anything that could even be construed as criticism,for the past couple of years.they pissed away the benefit of doubt given by the country and the world.after 9-11.

    usually the bush bashing section is tiny.now its half the rack.

    and its the books that try to rebut for the sake of reputation(bush's),that are grasping and reeking of rationalization.misunderestimated.what a joke.

    the political climate is changing
    .



    [Edited by remember on 07-13-2004 at 06:40 PM]

  10. #114
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    Remember

    How has the administration acted treasonous? Look up the definition then we'll have a friendly debate on why that's an incorrect statement.

  11. #115
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    treason
    1)the betrayal of trust
    2)the offense of attempting by overt acts to overthrow the gov't of the state to which the offender owes allegiance or to kill or personally injure the sovereign or his family.


    first

    the betrayal of trust.

    someone in this administration(bush,cheney ,rove,?)
    broke the law by "outing" a current asset of the CIA.valerie plame,wife of joe wilson.
    political payback for ambassador wilso coming out and discrediting the lies told by the bush administration about nigerian yellowcake.
    not only did they destroy an asset,they destroyed another asset ,which was the company she worked for,"jennings and brewster."
    which had extensive contact in saudi arabia and aramaco(arabian-american oil co,12% of worlds oil supply).saudi arabia(royal family) is major source of terrorist funding,now the cia is blinded on a major front;america is more vulnerable.



    the lies this administration used to "create"the sense that the war in Iraq had anything to do with al-queada.
    the taking of a country to war on false pretenses,is treason.

    a justification of "misconstrued intelligence"is a weak attempt at best to explain why they chose to "believe" those that agreed with them while ignoring the majority of evidence to the contrary.

    yellowcake.cheney asks wilson to go check it out.
    wilson finds that it has absolutely no basis in fact.
    cheney and bush lie (because at that point they knew it was a lie)to the world using what is known to them to be untrue.

    at the time these were:
    aluminum tubes-weak at best totally false most likely
    unmanned aerial drones-flimsy
    british dossier"dodgy dossier"-plagerized from sources that also said iraq was no threat.
    nuclear arsenal,even though this administration said in the beginning of their term that they knew the iraqi's didn't have the capability.
    chemical weapons,this they knew saddam had,they gave them to him
    antrax- 1989.so they are the agents of peddling weapons of mass destruction.against geneva conventions.


    among others.
    this administration has either been lying,or
    they have no ability to make sound judgements ,based on the available evidence.

    for too many inteligence agency personel were right in their assesments of all these matters(saying charges against saddam had no merit).and time has proven the administration inept at best,or treasonous at worst on the iraq war,drive.

    so this is just the beginning.of the case against the bush administration.

    but really the war in iraq is not their fault,though they will probably take the blame because it is their doing.


    for as early as 1997,foreign affairs,the council on foreign relations periodical,has been gearing up for "instability"in the region.

    as early as 1997,they were recomending that people should structure their investments in the region(middle east,SE asia) to end after the turn of the century,due to likelyhood of regional destabilization,that could last for several years,but should lead to a profitable future outlook
    in many sectors especially energy.


    all the members of the council ought to be charged with treason for being agents of an enemy of the US,foreign and domestic clause in the oath they took.

    I have put together a partial list of members i,ll post again,later.

    In this administration:

    colin powell
    dick cheney
    condi rice
    don rumsfeld
    george tenet
    paul wolfowitz
    lewis"scooter"libby
    elaine chao(mitch mcconnels wife)
    john negroponte
    bill donaldson
    robert zoellick
    richard perle
    stephen friedman
    doug feith
    richard clark
    alan greenspan

    and a few in congress;
    lee hamilton
    john lehman
    jay(john d. IV)rockefeller

    among others

    clinton administration:

    bill clinton
    al gore(and his father al gore)
    madelaine albright
    bruce babbit
    bill cohen
    bill richardson
    donna shalala
    dick thornburgh
    warren christopher
    sandy berger
    henry cisneros
    les aspin
    anthony lake
    george stephanopolous
    nancy soderberg
    vernon jordan
    strobe talbot
    lawrence eagleberger
    winston lord

    james woolsey
    john deutch
    alan greenspan

    among others


    first bush admin.:

    george H W Bush
    dick cheney
    colin powell
    brent scowcroft
    alexander haig
    george shulz

    for starters.


    reagan admin.

    george bush
    james baker
    john j mccloy
    donald regan
    alexander haig
    george shulz
    john c whitehead
    caspar weinberger
    frank c carlucci
    winston lord
    robert mc farlane
    malcolm baldridge
    william brock
    bill casey
    alan greenspan


    among others.


    carter admin.

    jimmy carter
    walter mondale (GERALDINE FERRARO IS TOO)
    zbignew bryzinski
    cyrus vance
    harold brown
    warren cristopher
    richard cooper
    richard holbrook
    anthony m soloman
    john sawhill
    hedley donovan
    henry owen
    w. micheal blumenthal
    joseph caliphano
    paul warnke

    richard gardner
    edwin o reishower
    anthony lake
    robert bowie
    milton katz
    abram chayes
    george ball

    paul volker



    ford admin.


    gerald ford
    nelson rockefeller
    many same as nixon admin.


    nixon admin.


    richard nixon
    gerald ford
    henry kissinger
    peter g peterson
    elliot richardson
    james lynn
    george ball
    paul mccracken
    charles yost
    harlan cleveland
    jacob beam
    melvin laird
    george shulz
    david kennedy
    gerard smith

    arthur burns

    among others.

    lyndon baines johnson admin.

    walt rostow
    robert mcnamara
    william bundy(prematurely wrote "tonkin resolution" before it happened.
    mcgeorge bundy


    dean aecheson (father in law to william bundy)
    john j mccloy
    robert lovett
    averil harriman
    george ball
    henry cabot lodge
    gen. maxwell taylor
    ellsworth bunker

    and more,etc.


    kennedy admin.

    same as johnson.
    john f kennedy
    douglas dillon(dillon and read bank)federal reserve member
    john mcone
    roswell gilpatric
    paul nitze
    henry fowler
    george ball
    averill harriman
    arthur schlesinger
    jerome weisner
    angier duke
    john mccloy
    dean rusk
    robert lovett


    eisenhower admin.

    dwight eisenhower
    richard nixon
    douglas dillon
    nelson rockefeller
    gordon gray
    lewis strauss
    robert anderson
    allen dulles
    christian herter
    john foster dulles


    truman admin.

    dean aechenson
    robert lovet
    averil harriman
    john mccloy
    george kennan
    charles bohlen
    gen. george c marshall
    gen. matthew ridgeway
    james forrestal(who bought a paper and was about to expose establishment when he committed suicide)


    roosevelt


    a few were:

    henry morganthau
    edward stettinus
    sumner welles
    henry stimson
    george messer smith
    harry hopkins
    alger hiss
    norman h davis
    james warburg

    opponent 1940 election-wendell wilkie





    federal reserve


    alan greenspan
    paul volker
    arthur burns
    william mcchesney-martin

    and numerous others


    cia


    directors

    george tenet
    james woolsey
    bill casey
    john mcone
    robert gates
    bobby ray inman
    stansfield turner
    william webster
    george bush
    richard helms
    john deutch

    and then some...


    and that are some from the executive branch.


    a few from the congress are:

    henry hyde
    warren rudman
    terry sanford
    pat moynihan
    bob graham
    joe lieberman
    john mccain
    bill bradley
    john kerry(skull and bones)
    william taft
    adalai stevenson III
    andrew young
    christopher dodd
    dick gephardt
    robert matsui





    supreme court:

    ruth bader ginsberg
    stephen breyer
    felix frankfurter
    william rehnquist


    misc politicians


    mario cuomo
    wesley clark
    george s mcgovern
    charles robb
    peter w rodman
    porter goss(skull and bones)
    geraldine ferraro




    for now,gotta go I'll add more later,in gov't and haven't even gotten to the private sector,foundations, academia,
    blue chip boards and CEO's.





    [Edited by remember on 07-15-2004 at 08:16 PM]

  12. #116
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    remember

    You shows signs of compulsive paranoia.

  13. #117
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    Re: remember

    Originally posted by rob10
    You shows signs of compulsive paranoia.
    I think it's the crack!


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