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Thread: Fahrenheit 9/11

  1. #92
    Originally posted by bootlen
    it's all in concrete now. W's in the House.
    [/B]
    Not for long he ain't.......
    Hey cockroach, don't bug me!

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  2. #93
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    Unhappy Y'all need to lay off of the vitriol.

    Calling people names is counterproductive and childish.

    I don't paticularly like Michael Moore but his films can be entertaining and sometimes he brings up some valid ideas and makes you think. However in F9/11 he is incredibly deceitful and brings up very few valid points.

    Fifty-nine Deceits in Fahrenheit 9/11 http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fift...enheit-911.htm



    Three days after September 11, Moore demanded that no military action be taken against Afghanistan:

    "Declare war?" War against whom? One guy in the desert whom we can never seem to find? Are our leaders telling us that the most powerful country on earth cannot dispose of one sick evil f---wad of a guy? Because if that is what you are telling us, then we are truly screwed. If you are unable to take out this lone ZZ Top wannabe, what on earth would you do for us if we were attacked by a nation of millions? For chrissakes, call the Israelis and have them do that thing they do when they want to get their man! We pay them enough billions each year, I am SURE they would be happy to accommodate your request....

    But do not declare war and massacre more innocents. After bin Laden's previous act of terror, our last elected president went and bombed what he said was "bin Laden's camp" in Afghanistan -- but instead just killed civilians.

    Michael Moore, "War on Whom?" AlterNet, Sept. 14, 2001.



    The next day he wrote:

    Trust me, they are talking politics night and day, and those discussions involve sending our kids off to fight some invisible enemy and to indiscriminately bomb Afghans or whoever they think will make us Americans feel good.

    ...I fear we will soon be in a war that will do NOTHING to protect us from the next terrorist attack.

    "Mike's Message," Sept. 15, 2001. Although Moore vehemently opposed the Afghanistan War, Fahrenheit criticizes Bush for not putting more troops into Afghanistan sooner.


  3. #94
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    yeah,he might be making arguements that seem to overlap and contradict each other;but they both happen to have been true in respect to each individual context.

    usually,any one person doesn't get to decide the "context" of the issues being discussed.


    first;
    he was right,bombing afghanistan didn't destroy al-queda.


    it didn't help get osama...so far.


    and the taliban was a puppet gov't of pakistan; and being that pakistan(supplier to iran,north korea,and libya of nuclear "device" and "material production" programs and hardware)is still there,the same power system and tribal structures exist.


    second;

    if you are arguing for a buildup in the war on terror,why not seriously adress the job at hand and divert your resources to the matter at hand(capture of osama,and neutralizing al-queada);instead of opening a can of worms in a 9-11 un-related country like Iraq.

    stirring up trouble, and validating the radical fundementalist propaganda of osama and the like who have been spinning the story that someday the USA will invade the holy land for colonization and OIL.

    both arguements against the bush administration agenda are valid,even with niether being the answer to the question,"if it was up to you,what would you do?"

  4. #95
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    by the way ,that list is less factual than moore's assertions and more slanted and out of context.

    jim bath was the representative for salem bin-laden.
    you can read all about him and the bin-laden connection in a book named,
    "The mafia,CIA,and George Bush"by Pete Brewton.
    he was the reporter the broke the savings and loan scandal,and reported it to the congress.
    that is george sr. and it was published in the early 90's,so this current debate doesn't "color"it at all.

    the bin-ladens and the bushes have been in buisness many way for decades.

    the private equity firm,carlyle group,does buisness with many on both sides of the isle

    the real story is that both parties are corrupt and lying sons of *****es.

    porter goss is another one of those fraternity brothers"Skull and bones";like :
    george HW Bush
    george W BUSH
    john f kerry
    porter goss

    and so many others.


    the Council on foreign relations
    colon powell
    condeleeza rice
    dick cheney
    paul wolfowitz
    george tenet
    donald rumsfeld
    john negroponte
    robert zoellick
    elaine chao
    lewis "scooter" libby
    richard perle
    douglas feith
    richard clark
    john lehman
    lee hamilton


    and so many others....

    I could go on ,but what's the point.

  5. #96
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    Okay, I just got back from seeing it. Moore said on National TV that this movie was just "his opinion".

    He didn't present anything that shocked me out of my socks.

    War is not pretty. If you think those soldiers are *****ing over there in Bagdad you should of heard us *****ing in Saigon.

    Mothers cry as the result of every war.

    He kind of fluffed over the fact that American soil had been attacked.

    My analisis of the movie is. If someone has a camera on your crouch 24 hours a day they are going to catch you scratching your nuts. If they edit all that tape down they can make a movie of you masturbating in public.

  6. #97
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    My sister was stuck in Montreal for a week when her plane was diverted there on 9-11. It's weird to find out planeloads of Saudi's were granted permission to leave the country. Don't you think Moore asked a good question of Why.
    How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?

  7. #98
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    Originally posted by ozone drone
    My sister was stuck in Montreal for a week when her plane was diverted there on 9-11. It's weird to find out planeloads of Saudi's were granted permission to leave the country. Don't you think Moore asked a good question of Why.
    Yeah, and then you could ask why he is so concerned about captured combatants in a Iraq prison if he is so concerned about detaining people just because of their race or national origin.

    Makes sense eh?


    Though so.

  8. #99
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    the planeload of saudi nationals and bin-laden relatives wasn't just a bunch of people that are being racially profiled.

    one point;

    goat herders are being scooped off hillsides in afghanistan and being held like they might "know "
    something.which is highly unlikely.

    so why let go family members and other ,obviously,important and connected saudi's.

    all of whom are much more likely to know things about osama and his connections.


    if this was a criminal case ,the chances of joe blow's family not being questioned,is nill.


    another example of the officals not doing their job.


    and the number I heard was @ 142 people,whereas in response to the accusations the officials pass the buck by saying they did question 50 ,briefly.

    wwhich is so vague to be absolutely meaningless.

    maybe the 50 they questioned weren't even of the 142 that were flown out.or'

    maybe the 50 questioned were asked their names?

    or maybe they were asked if they wanted the fish or the chicken, on their flight out of the country.

    to take people literally ,statements can mean anything and still be true.




    so to compare the likelihood,of some idiot in the desert,who is probably ignorant of anything,internationally,to family members who,even though it is a huge family,still have intimate knowledge about habits and resources and retreats.and certainly associates and friends.

    clear case of throwing the ball away,not just dropping it.

    I still haven't seen the movie,so I'm not vouching for it

    [Edited by remember on 07-12-2004 at 07:55 PM]

  9. #100
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    Originally posted by remember
    the planeload of saudi nationals and bin-laden relatives wasn't just a bunch of people that are being racially profiled.

    one point;

    goat herders are being scooped off hillsides in afghanistan and being held like they might "know "
    something.which is highly unlikely.

    so why let go family members and other ,obviously,important and connected saudi's.

    all of whom are much more likely to know things about osama and his connections.


    if this was a criminal case ,the chances of joe blow's family not being questioned,is nill.


    another example of the officals not doing their job.


    and the number I heard was @ 142 people,whereas in response to the accusations the officials pass the buck by saying they did question 50 ,briefly.

    wwhich is so vague to be absolutely meaningless.

    maybe the 50 they questioned weren't even of the 142 that were flown out.or'

    maybe the 50 questioned were asked their names?

    or maybe they were asked if they wanted the fish or the chicken, on their flight out of the country.

    to take people literally ,statements can mean anything and still be true.




    so to compare the likelihood,of some idiot in the desert,who is probably ignorant of anything,internationally,to family members who,even though it is a huge family,still have intimate knowledge about habits and resources and retreats.and certainly associates and friends.

    clear case of throwing the ball away,not just dropping it.

    I still haven't seen the movie,so I'm not vouching for it

    [Edited by remember on 07-12-2004 at 07:55 PM]
    Besides the wide seeping generalizations you just made, you would be the first to scream as you always do when you think your right's have been or are about to be infringed upon. If your nephew did something in the Middle East and they detained (which in legal term is a arrest) or did not protect your family not to mention the hundred thousand other Americans that are there.


  10. #101
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    Originally posted by ozone drone
    My sister was stuck in Montreal for a week when her plane was diverted there on 9-11. It's weird to find out planeloads of Saudi's were granted permission to leave the country. Don't you think Moore asked a good question of Why.
    ================================================== ==========

    Strangely enough, a guy named Clark gave the clearance for them to leave the country. Clark...hmmm. That rings a bell for some reason.
    No reserve. No retreat. No regrets.

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  11. #102
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    [/B][/QUOTE]

    Yeah, and then you could ask why he is so concerned about captured combatants in a Iraq prison if he is so concerned about detaining people just because of their race or national origin.

    Makes sense eh?


    Though so. [/B][/QUOTE]

    I saw the movie....don't remember him making a big deal about Iraqi detainees...not saying he didn't mention them...just didn't leave much of an impression on me. The weeping mothers and all that ... it's war and mothers lose sons ...that's a mother's lot in any war.

    What did get my attention was the Saudi stuff. He's interviewing a guy across the street from the Saudi embassy and before long 3 cop looking cars pull up with uniformed secret service people asking what's up. Moore tells them he's making a documentary that mentions the Saudis. They say okay and start to leave and Moore asks the guy ..Didn't know the secret service protected foreign embassies? The guy shrugs.

    I know Moore has an agenda...his views are very slanted against Pres Bush. What is blatant propaganda I can see it for what it is. But some points and questions are worth looking at and arriving at your own conclusion, instead of just saying that it's all total bull****.
    How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?

  12. #103
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    not at all,I'v been in some backward foreign countries and when you are there you keep your ass to yourself because you know you don't want to have anything to do with the officials.

    when you're on your own in some foreign country you either keep your nose clean or expect to keep yourself out of harms way.

    I don't consider I have any rights in many places,and when you don't have any back-up,you had better not get in trouble.

    you make /accept your own fortune.


    this country treats foreigners better than many,
    that is what should always be true.

    and I wouldn't expect preferential treatment if there was trouble in the town I live.

    so don't even go there,like someone is going to cry for someone's rights.

    this is discussion of topics that are bigger than,how i'm doing.now.

  13. #104
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    Originally posted by marauderx
    Originally posted by lmtd
    Uhm, are you missing the point Dice? That is his goal, make money off a tragic event, nothing more nothing less. That is why he is a big old turd.
    What is Bush doing with 911? And Ronald Reagan's death? Did you buy the Ronald Reagan DVD yet? I'm surprised there wasn't a BUSH'04 bumper sticker on the hearse.

    Does Bush have the epilogue in the DVD release?
    How is Bush trying to benefit from Reagans death, I hear that hype coming from the left of course.

    Yes Bush made a few commercials with scenes from the 9-11, and some found it to be offensive. It showed a commander-in-chief with the workers at ground zero, showing he was still in charge of a country attacked.
    So what!!
    But Micheal Moore can show excerpts from the tragedy and be held as a liberal hero, non-sense. The guy is an idiot! plain and simple.


    [Edited by bobby7388 on 07-12-2004 at 11:17 PM]

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