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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    1,242

    Angry I knew there was a reason I don't care for TRANES!

    I have a major restaurant I service. There are five TRANE gas-package units installed on the roof serving the interior. I am having a great deal of problems with them and am wondering, is anybody else out there experiencing similar happenings?

    The units are as follows:

    Unit A YCD180B3LAFA Serial R38102585D DOM 9/2000

    Unit B YCD150C3LACA Serial R38102642D DOM 9/2000

    Unit C YCD150C3LACA Serial R38102541D DOM 9/2000

    Unit C has had the evaporator coil replaced earlier this week from multiple pinholes in the copper tubing of the coil. It has also been tripping the internal service disconnect for no obvious reason. Compressors are fine, motors are fine, contacts are clean, connections tight, unit fairly clean, charge is perfect, so on and so forth. No obvious problems.

    Unit B has had the condenser coil replaced two weeks ago from leaks resulting from the condenser tubing splitting in several places. It is running perfectly now.

    Unit A has been the nightmare. I replaced the condenser coil the same day Unit B had its coil replaced and for the same reason. Weighed in the refrigerant charge per the nameplate rating and checked the operation. No problems whatsoever.

    Last Friday, I had to go back and found one of the tubes from the discharge header into the coil circuit had a cracked solder joint and blew the charge for the one circuit. The other circuit had a crack on the bell of the elbow coming off of the compressor discharge outlet. Being late Friday night, I had to repair the cracks by slightly enlarging them and filling and capping with 45% silver solder.

    Just today, I find that where that tube I previously repaired ties into the coil circuit at the swage joint of the coil, the swage had cracked around it and blew the charge for this circuit again! Three inches from my repair. It held by the way.
    On the other circuit, the discharge elbow got a crack in the copper at the bend of the elbow and blew this charge again also! My previous repair here held also.

    I got the torch and 45% out again and made a succesful repair. I think.

    I called my boss and informed him of the situation. He got hold of TRANE and got a rep out there to look at what happened. I expect to get a response early next week. I'm sure my boss will keep after TRANE until they talk to us about what is going on. This is ridiculous. Three units at the same location with three coil failures and two other, repeating failures in the span of two weeks!

    I have checked the compressors, scrolls, for excessive vibration and can't find anything unusual. They're running as I normally find them, slight vibration but, not excessive. The unit sits still on the rooftop. Can't even feel it standing right next to it and certainly don't see any vibration other than what is normal.

    Again, has anybody experienced anything similar to these goings-on? If you have and have made succesful repairs, I would certainly like to know what you had to do. I can't keep going back once a week to fix a brand new coil that keeps cracking or fixing cracking copper tubing. The management there is getting highly upset that their young TRANE equipment is having so many difficulties. And I'm feeling really bad for them. I need some help.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Posts
    6,966

    Hmm

    on the scroll/vibration anybody take the shipping tubes out of the mounting bolts under those washers?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    7,817
    Two years ago I set up 8 Voyages on a hospital roof. Within 2 weeks 4 of them had the condensor fan blades break. Took out a couple of condensor motors. Then the largest dual compressor unit had a non-repairable crack in the condensor. Craned the new on to the roof and pressure tested BEFORE I installed it. It had a crack from the factory. Silfosed it closed and installed.

    Repeated refrigerant leaks, control problems, more fan blade cracks and I can't remember what else. Then the warranty period ended for the install contractor so the inhouse maintenance people took over. No more calls to me but I heard they were still changing parts.

    More calls about some more Voyagers at a new fire dept. Economizer shorting out, voyager boards failing and other stuff.

    Not too impressed with Trane anymore and I use to think the world rotated around them.
    "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers it can bribe the public with the public's own money.
    - Alexis de Toqueville, 1835

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Columbus Ohio
    Posts
    328
    Its not just Trane, Quality has declined accross the board
    I noticed when i replaced a couple Lennox LGA cond. coils
    the inside of the copper tubes were narled (like a ratchet
    handle)to increase surface area I assume and the copper
    is paper thin. These had many pinholes,Units were only 2
    yrs old. Carrier/Bryant package units have declined the
    most in my opinion, Lennox & Trane are the better units
    I think. I to have seen the problems you are experiencing
    at this restaraunt...all you can do is keep fixing them and
    get the factory reps involved.

  5. #5
    Went to a noise complaint on a couple of YCD150 units just last week. Scrolls running backwards for at least a week, after city replaced main transformer in the street. I noticed the service log in the first one that also showed several leak repairs in the first month of service.

    I believe a lot of this is due to poor quality control, but most of the time Trane is willing to make it right.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    4,995
    I guess it depends on your local office. Ours you have to fight tooth and nail to get warranty issues resolved. Its always someone elses fault and never theirs. Ocasionaly it is someone elses fault but not as often as theyd like you to believe.
    Originally posted by no8no3

    I believe a lot of this is due to poor quality control, but most of the time Trane is willing to make it right.

  7. #7
    You're right abs, i never said they would accept responsibility, LOL. the blatant stuff like leaks they generally will bone up to, at least this local dealer.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    1,389

    william antley

    Just for information's sake, do you happen to know what countries the various parts are made in?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    52

    everything is junk when its broke

    I work on lots of equipment.Trane has its problems like the rest.The one thing I will say about Trane is that their tech support is great.Or has been for me.I work on a large plant that has alot of DesChamp units.Try dealing with those people.Every piece of equipment out there is cjunk when its broke.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    1,389
    Pinholes in copper is a major factor as whomever is making the coils appears to not have any sort of quality control set in place. It also means Trane may have a problem that will be on-going for a long time depending if there are various models of equipment with this problem. Usually the odds are, when they run 10,000 units (for a number)they will have 10,000 problems.
    That was why I posted where they are manufactured.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    1,242
    I don't know right off-hand where the components are manufactured but, I may be able to find out.

    I have had other QC issues with TRANE in the past. Maybe a year ago I posted of having coil leakage problems on a multitude of TRANE WSHP's. These units were just over one year old and the evap coils were coming up with several pinholes in the copper tubing. We talked to TRANE reps and their response was, across the board, "They're more than a year old, warranty is out."

    I also had a similar problem with Comfortmaker evap. coils developing pinholes in the copper. ICP produced these coils and they were trying to reduce production costs by using the flux wash chemicals twice as long as the manufacturer recommended. They found later that overextending the wash usage would cause acid formation from the residue of the flux wash combining with moisture and oxygen. Those coils leaked. The sixth thru tenth coil of every wash run developed pinholes. ICP owned up to it and gave replacement coils and a labor allowance to make it right so long as we returned the label from the cabinet or case for each coil replaced.

    I have been noticing that ALL equipment I've worked on in the last several years don't seem to be as sturdy as what I worked on in the beginning. I had 25 and 30 year old equipment just purring along, rarely a problem. In the last few years I've noticed a general decline in quality. You can say "job security" all you like but, I think it's going to be a MAJOR problem for all of us down the road.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    7,817
    Originally posted by william antley
    You can say "job security" all you like but, I think it's going to be a MAJOR problem for all of us down the road.
    I see it as a major problem now. Manufacturers don't own up to equipment that won't last for the most part. Parts directly out of boxes that aren't any good. Capacitors failing by the hundreds, thousands, -- who knows -- within one year. Fan relays that fail almost right away. And the list goes on.

    The cost in unproductive time, frustrated techs and owners, warranty issues and, mainly, what we look like to the customers is a cost no one can total.

    I've said this more than one time "It's almost all just this side of Junk" these days.

    I just had a series of failed run capacitors all made in china on equipment (pick a brand) less than 2 years old so I have gone out of my way to find a source of American made run capacitors and can't. All the replacements are made in China and just looking at them tells me they are not going to last either.
    "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers it can bribe the public with the public's own money.
    - Alexis de Toqueville, 1835

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    1,242
    You are OH SO RIGHT Delta T! It's a big problem now and it's only going to get WORSE!
    The two places I see replacement parts coming from most are Mexico and China. Just looking at them, straight out of the package, I'm not too confident in them. But, what else can I do, I have to repair the systems, no choice.
    How difficult would it be for us, as a whole, to bring the manufacturers to task? I would figure that serious documentation of all the troubles we are having, with photographs for additional support, a group of us may be able to get something positive done for our industry.
    I think I'm going to start keeping better documentation of what I find on my service calls. Install errors, manufacturer errors and so forth. Get a history of their equipment and maybe they'll listen a little better instead of shrugging us off since it's just over a year old.

    Of course, I do have some interesting dreams from time to time, don't I?

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