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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Middle Tennessee
    Posts
    11,347

    *

    Quote Originally Posted by rick james View Post
    "slugging liquid also causes a foamy sight glass"

    really? I thought it causes broken reeds, rods etc. Your getting slugging, washout, and floodback all mixed up.

    "but it is important to never bring oil level past a half sight glass especially on Carrier semi's"

    first off it's a Carlyle not a Carrier. 2nd, as I've already stated it's 3/8 for a O6E. 3/4 for a O6D.

    Check your superheat. That is refrigerant boiling out of the oil. You may have some minor floodback

    Not that it matters, but I'd be curious to see what happens to the splashing if the rotation of the compressor was reversed.

    edit: actually The bubbling compressor probably wasn't running as long, probably just some off-cycle migration. Wouldn't hurt to check your crank case heater and any pump down, pump out, etc. Is the condenser above the compressor?
    when i posted Carrier at first i figured everyone knew the only semi-hermetic compressor that goes in a Carrier is a Carlyle

    now that i think about it your right i should of said Carlyle

    for guys just in the trade or learning, you correct the proper terms need to be used

    now that that's out of the way

    whats the difference in a 06D that the level needs to be 3/4?

    i posted earlier, "slugging liquid also causes a foamy sight glass"

    "I thought it causes broken reeds, rods etc. Your getting slugging, washout, and floodback all mixed up"

    the above sentence in red is yours, what is your basis for me being mixxed up?

    i have worked on 100's of Carrier/Carlyle semi's, and i am always ready and willing to learn something new but thanks for trying anyway


    .

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Lexington, NC
    Posts
    5,137
    Quote Originally Posted by rick james View Post
    "slugging liquid also causes a foamy sight glass"

    really? I thought it causes broken reeds, rods etc. Your getting slugging, washout, and floodback all mixed up.

    "but it is important to never bring oil level past a half sight glass especially on Carrier semi's"

    first off it's a Carlyle not a Carrier. 2nd, as I've already stated it's 3/8 for a O6E. 3/4 for a O6D.

    Check your superheat. That is refrigerant boiling out of the oil. You may have some minor floodback

    Not that it matters, but I'd be curious to see what happens to the splashing if the rotation of the compressor was reversed.

    edit: actually The bubbling compressor probably wasn't running as long, probably just some off-cycle migration. Wouldn't hurt to check your crank case heater and any pump down, pump out, etc. Is the condenser above the compressor?
    I made the observation at the startup after an extended off cycle. This is the only time that both compressors on this unit will run together. No crank case heater on this liebert unit. The compressors are housed in the indoor section which is a ductless unit that sits in the IT room. the condensor sits right outside the room on the same level.
    The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing!

    If "the grass is greener on the other side", it likely has been fertilized with Bull$hit!

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    73
    "whats the difference in a 06D that the level needs to be 3/4?"

    No one says it needs to be. For the forth time, the manufacturer says can be as high as. When theres no angle valve (which is just about aways on a D) that is a big difference.

    theres about 5 places in the book linked (which is probably also on your van) that says bad things happen when a E exceeds 3/8. Throw your half a site glass rule of thumb in the trash

    just started, no crank case heater, bottom compressor lower then the condenser and evaporator.

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Lexington, NC
    Posts
    5,137
    neither compressor is below the condensor. bottom compressor is sitting about the same level as the evap.
    The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing!

    If "the grass is greener on the other side", it likely has been fertilized with Bull$hit!

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Portland Oregon
    Posts
    87
    Quote Originally Posted by nchvac View Post
    The oil level is about half. It makes good sense what you are saying about the rotation of the compressors. It looks like they would have phased them the same at the factory.
    They do phase them from the factory most of the time, but every now and again I will see them on start up going opposite directions. But most of the time it is because of people changing contactors and not paying attention. Keep in mind that it does not matter what way the compressor is turning, it is more of a preferance.
    do things right the first time is cheaper.

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Lexington, NC
    Posts
    5,137
    Quote Originally Posted by ispip View Post
    They do phase them from the factory most of the time, but every now and again I will see them on start up going opposite directions. But most of the time it is because of people changing contactors and not paying attention. Keep in mind that it does not matter what way the compressor is turning, it is more of a preferance.
    I thought on a recip that it would pump a little better in one direction than the other.
    Isn't it bad to reverse the phase of a recip that has ran in the opposite direction for a while?
    The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing!

    If "the grass is greener on the other side", it likely has been fertilized with Bull$hit!

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Morgan Hill Ca.
    Posts
    1,219
    Quote Originally Posted by rick james View Post


    page 12 (book, page 14 adobe)
    http://www.carlylecompressor.com/Fil...ver_LOWRES.pdf

    Have a great night


    The whole bottom half of the page has a big picture for you to look at and in big writing says "operating levels".

    so if your running a E at 1/2 your to high, and if your running a D at 3/4 you don't need to install a angle valve and drain. Theres more on the top of page 13. The first time I made this claim I wasn't making it, it was cut and pasted from the manufacturers lit. If you want to argue with them knock yourself out, let me know when you change their minds

    Well perhaps I need to validate my comment then.....


    On a Leibert computer room unit, especially, but no limited to water cooled condenser machines, the piping is so short and the evaporator configured so well, they cannot be run at more than half a glass....They do not have the oil return problems of say a packaged unit or a split system, even air cooled Leiberts with roof mounted condenser fan coils have little to no problems with oil logging...If you run the oil levels higher than 1/2 glass, they will whip the oil and do almost exactly what the OP said it does....

    These machines do not have (typically) crankcase heaters, IMHO they do not need them for two reasons, one, they are indoor compressors, two, they have liquid line solenoids and pump down upon shutdown...The pump down is another reason for the 1/2 glass recommendation...


    I have a customer with a data center with over 100 CRU's and they are all Leiberts and Data Airs with 2 O6D compressors, not one has more than 1/2 a glass in the oil sight glass and have never had any oil related issues until they have a short cycle problem do to a worn liquid line solenoid that wont close off completely...

    I was not trying to start a 30 post debate, I was merely sharing what I have learned regarding O6D's in CRU's....

    Yes I have the Carlyle book, fact finder and teardown manual....The problem with running these with greater than half a glass is foaming and windage, they flat out do not need the extra oil for level fluctuations, which is why they say you CAN run them higher, but not without consequences, they carry oil out hard an much over 1/2.... True Story.

    Not my first rodeo BTW.

    GT
    If a day goes by and you have learned nothing, I hope you got a lot of sleep.

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    73
    Quote Originally Posted by nchvac View Post
    neither compressor is below the condensor. bottom compressor is sitting about the same level as the evap.
    Isn't the horizontal condenser coil 3-4' off the ground and the evaporator higher than a oil sump 3" off the ground? trapping? circuit pumped down before shutting off the unit? Gravity, temperature, etc, doesn't matter, there is always some migration when vapor refrigerant is in contact with a pool of oil. Just a little refrigerant boiling out of the oil upon start-up, has nothing to do with oil level anyway.

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Morgan Hill Ca.
    Posts
    1,219
    Quote Originally Posted by rick james View Post
    Isn't the horizontal condenser coil 3-4' off the ground and the evaporator higher than a oil sump 3" off the ground? trapping? circuit pumped down before shutting off the unit? Gravity, temperature, etc, doesn't matter, there is always some migration when vapor refrigerant is in contact with a pool of oil. Just a little refrigerant boiling out of the oil upon start-up, has nothing to do with oil level anyway.

    These are pumpdowns....They pump down every cycle and should, if properly set up, alternate starts...

    Not arguing, just stating facts..

    I thought he was referring to constant foaming and splashing while the compressors were running....Not just start up...



    GT
    If a day goes by and you have learned nothing, I hope you got a lot of sleep.

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    73
    sounded to me like they were only running for a couple minutes, after being tuned off for, I'm guessing, maint, and guessing again, without a pump down.

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Morgan Hill Ca.
    Posts
    1,219
    Quote Originally Posted by rick james View Post
    sounded to me like they were only running for a couple minutes, after being tuned off for, I'm guessing, maint, and guessing again, without a pump down.

    Possible, but I did not actually read that anywhere.. I guess in that scenario that would be a diluted oil charge, I would think there would be more going on....

    I have seen TXV failures (rare) and liquid solenoid failures do some odd stuff, but normally the software is smart enough to figure it out and spit out an alarm...

    I see where you were going now...Just a different road.

    GT
    If a day goes by and you have learned nothing, I hope you got a lot of sleep.

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    73
    "When I look at the bottom compressor glass, I don't see the oil being splattered on the window. What I do see is some small bubbles swirling in the oil, and eventually the oil foams on top."

    "The oil level is about half"

    "I made the observation at the startup after an extended off cycle. This is the only time that both compressors on this unit will run together."

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Morgan Hill Ca.
    Posts
    1,219
    I still don't see anywhere they only ran for a couple minutes at a time....

    I had explained what he observed in the first post....His description of what he saw is what I would consider normal...Providing it subsides and is at a constant level....Simply oil windage.....Unless there is very low superheat, I see no reason for concern...

    The one recommendation I would have is to check all pressures and temperatures and compare that info to the RLA to identify a tired compressor with a large amount of blow by....

    Otherwise....All good.

    GT
    If a day goes by and you have learned nothing, I hope you got a lot of sleep.

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