06D oil question

[nchvac]

I have a liebert unit with 2 O6D compressors. Both units are charged to manu specs, and use the same condensor and evap coil. On the top compressor, when I look in the oil glass, I see the oil being kind of sprayed on the glass. When I look at the bottom compressor glass, I don't see the oil being splattered on the window. What I do see is some small bubbles swirling in the oil, and eventually the oil foams on top.

Both of these compressors are original, and manued on the same day according to the stickers. I am just curious why there is a difference in how the oil appears in the window. thanks

[GT Jets]

I have a liebert unit with 2 O6D compressors. Both units are charged to manu specs, and use the same condensor and evap coil. On the top compressor, when I look in the oil glass, I see the oil being kind of sprayed on the glass. When I look at the bottom compressor glass, I don't see the oil being splattered on the window. What I do see is some small bubbles swirling in the oil, and eventually the oil foams on top.

Both of these compressors are original, and manued on the same day according to the stickers. I am just curious why there is a difference in how the oil appears in the window. thanks

It is called oil windage, the turbulence from the crankshaft are whipping the oil around and causing the disturbance.

Superheat, compressor bearing and ring condition and oil level all have an effect on how much the oil gets disturbed...

The proper oil level is 1/3 up the glass from the bottom to no more than half the glass...Higher levels can really get whipped, lower levels causes the oil to run hotter and somewhat "spray" around inside the crankcase...

Extremely low superheat will cause a bizarre foaming of the oil too, it will also make the level look too high.

GT

[rick james]

not that 3/8 is incorrect but

The oil level for 06CC size 16 to 37 Cfm compressors and all 06D compressors should be at 1/4 to 3/4 of the sight glass. The oil level for 06CC size 50 to 99 Cfm compressors and all 06E compressors should be at 1/8 to 3/8 of the sight glass.

[Airmechanical]

the evap coil and condeser coils has seperate feeds for each circuit/stage

when everything is operating properly, the levels should be at 3/8 sight glass as stated

did the system have refigerant leaks



.

[nchvac]

The system did have a leak last year. I am thinking real quick off the top of my head and I can't remember for sure which circuit it was, but the leak was on the condensor in one of the U bends.
I have toped off both circuits before to manu's specs.

[coolerinfrederick]

too much oil in the sump can cause foaming, due to the crankshaft hitting it

[Airmechanical]

too much oil in the sump can cause foaming, due to the crankshaft hitting it

slugging liquid also causes a foamy sight glass


but it is important to never bring oil level past a half sight glass especially on Carrier semi's



.

[rick james]

"slugging liquid also causes a foamy sight glass"

really? I thought it causes broken reeds, rods etc. Your getting slugging, washout, and floodback all mixed up.

"but it is important to never bring oil level past a half sight glass especially on Carrier semi's"

first off it's a Carlyle not a Carrier. 2nd, as I've already stated it's 3/8 for a O6E. 3/4 for a O6D.

Check your superheat. That is refrigerant boiling out of the oil. You may have some minor floodback

Not that it matters, but I'd be curious to see what happens to the splashing if the rotation of the compressor was reversed.

edit: actually The bubbling compressor probably wasn't running as long, probably just some off-cycle migration. Wouldn't hurt to check your crank case heater and any pump down, pump out, etc. Is the condenser above the compressor?

[git-r-dun]

chapelle: "I'm Rick James b'tch!" lol

[GT Jets]

"slugging liquid also causes a foamy sight glass"

really? I thought it causes broken reeds, rods etc. Your getting slugging, washout, and floodback all mixed up.

"but it is important to never bring oil level past a half sight glass especially on Carrier semi's"

first off it's a Carlyle not a Carrier. 2nd, as I've already stated it's 3/8 for a O6E. 3/4 for a O6D.

Check your superheat. That is refrigerant boiling out of the oil. You may have some minor floodback

Not that it matters, but I'd be curious to see what happens to the splashing if the rotation of the compressor was reversed.

edit: actually The bubbling compressor probably wasn't running as long, probably just some off-cycle migration. Wouldn't hurt to check your crank case heater and any pump down, pump out, etc. Is the condenser above the compressor?

I thought I was harsh...


#1 on the list today, you are 100% wrong on the 3/4 sight glass deal...The reason for the lower oil level for the E series compressors was a design flaw, they had an issue with carry over and the change was made...

While the maximum oil level on an O6d is 3/4 of a glass, that is with the compressor off, not while running...while running, 1/2 glass tops....

The proper oil level for an O6D in an air conditioning application is 1/3 to 1/2 glass......


As for the comment of the bubbling of the oil, you left out "if the sight glass is full of bubbles", a little bubbling is considered "normal" a long as the oil is not sloshing....

Lastly, who do you think makes the Carlyle compressors? Carrier and Carlyle are like Lincoln and Ford......


GT

[rick james]

[QUOTE=GT Jets;6652352]#1 on the list today, you are 100% wrong on the 3/4 sight glass deal...The reason for the lower oil level for the E series compressors was a design flaw, they had an issue with carry over and the change was made...

While the maximum oil level on an O6d is 3/4 of a glass, that is with the compressor off, not while running...while running, 1/2 glass tops....

The proper oil level for an O6D in an air conditioning application is 1/3 to 1/2 glass......


page 12 (book, page 14 adobe)
http://www.carlylecompressor.com/Fil...ver_LOWRES.pdf

Have a great night

The whole bottom half of the page has a big picture for you to look at and in big writing says "operating levels".

so if your running a E at 1/2 your to high, and if your running a D at 3/4 you don't need to install a angle valve and drain. Theres more on the top of page 13. The first time I made this claim I wasn't making it, it was cut and pasted from the manufacturers lit. If you want to argue with them knock yourself out, let me know when you change their minds

[ispip]

NCHVAC I work on a lot of Lieberts in Oregon, and from the factory the 06D's come over charged with oil. The guys are correct about 1/4 to 3/4, any higher than 1/2 sightglass the oil will get in to the crank spining around and cause it to foam. The easiest way to check for this is ON START of the compressor watch the oil level it WILL pump out and come back as it comes back just keep watching it as it gets over 1/2 sightglass it will start foaming. Now you said that on the top compressor it is spraying oil on the glass and the bottom is not. This could be (if the oil levels are about the same) the top compressor crank is rotating toward the oil sightglass and the bottom is spining away from the glass. This is an easy fix just change the phasing of the top compressor. Hope this helps.

[nchvac]

The oil level is about half. It makes good sense what you are saying about the rotation of the compressors. It looks like they would have phased them the same at the factory.

[Airmechanical]

"slugging liquid also causes a foamy sight glass"

really? I thought it causes broken reeds, rods etc. Your getting slugging, washout, and floodback all mixed up.

"but it is important to never bring oil level past a half sight glass especially on Carrier semi's"

first off it's a Carlyle not a Carrier. 2nd, as I've already stated it's 3/8 for a O6E. 3/4 for a O6D.

Check your superheat. That is refrigerant boiling out of the oil. You may have some minor floodback

Not that it matters, but I'd be curious to see what happens to the splashing if the rotation of the compressor was reversed.

edit: actually The bubbling compressor probably wasn't running as long, probably just some off-cycle migration. Wouldn't hurt to check your crank case heater and any pump down, pump out, etc. Is the condenser above the compressor?

when i posted Carrier at first i figured everyone knew the only semi-hermetic compressor that goes in a Carrier is a Carlyle

now that i think about it your right i should of said Carlyle

for guys just in the trade or learning, you correct the proper terms need to be used

now that that's out of the way

whats the difference in a 06D that the level needs to be 3/4?

i posted earlier, "slugging liquid also causes a foamy sight glass"

"I thought it causes broken reeds, rods etc. Your getting slugging, washout, and floodback all mixed up"

the above sentence in red is yours, what is your basis for me being mixxed up?

i have worked on 100's of Carrier/Carlyle semi's, and i am always ready and willing to learn something new but thanks for trying anyway


.

[nchvac]

"slugging liquid also causes a foamy sight glass"

really? I thought it causes broken reeds, rods etc. Your getting slugging, washout, and floodback all mixed up.

"but it is important to never bring oil level past a half sight glass especially on Carrier semi's"

first off it's a Carlyle not a Carrier. 2nd, as I've already stated it's 3/8 for a O6E. 3/4 for a O6D.

Check your superheat. That is refrigerant boiling out of the oil. You may have some minor floodback

Not that it matters, but I'd be curious to see what happens to the splashing if the rotation of the compressor was reversed.

edit: actually The bubbling compressor probably wasn't running as long, probably just some off-cycle migration. Wouldn't hurt to check your crank case heater and any pump down, pump out, etc. Is the condenser above the compressor?

I made the observation at the startup after an extended off cycle. This is the only time that both compressors on this unit will run together. No crank case heater on this liebert unit. The compressors are housed in the indoor section which is a ductless unit that sits in the IT room. the condensor sits right outside the room on the same level.

[rick james]

"whats the difference in a 06D that the level needs to be 3/4?"

No one says it needs to be. For the forth time, the manufacturer says can be as high as. When theres no angle valve (which is just about aways on a D) that is a big difference.

theres about 5 places in the book linked (which is probably also on your van) that says bad things happen when a E exceeds 3/8. Throw your half a site glass rule of thumb in the trash

just started, no crank case heater, bottom compressor lower then the condenser and evaporator.

[nchvac]

neither compressor is below the condensor. bottom compressor is sitting about the same level as the evap.

[ispip]

The oil level is about half. It makes good sense what you are saying about the rotation of the compressors. It looks like they would have phased them the same at the factory.

They do phase them from the factory most of the time, but every now and again I will see them on start up going opposite directions. But most of the time it is because of people changing contactors and not paying attention. Keep in mind that it does not matter what way the compressor is turning, it is more of a preferance.

[nchvac]

They do phase them from the factory most of the time, but every now and again I will see them on start up going opposite directions. But most of the time it is because of people changing contactors and not paying attention. Keep in mind that it does not matter what way the compressor is turning, it is more of a preferance.

I thought on a recip that it would pump a little better in one direction than the other.
Isn't it bad to reverse the phase of a recip that has ran in the opposite direction for a while?

[GT Jets]

page 12 (book, page 14 adobe)
http://www.carlylecompressor.com/Fil...ver_LOWRES.pdf

Have a great night

The whole bottom half of the page has a big picture for you to look at and in big writing says "operating levels".

so if your running a E at 1/2 your to high, and if your running a D at 3/4 you don't need to install a angle valve and drain. Theres more on the top of page 13. The first time I made this claim I wasn't making it, it was cut and pasted from the manufacturers lit. If you want to argue with them knock yourself out, let me know when you change their minds

Well perhaps I need to validate my comment then.....


On a Leibert computer room unit, especially, but no limited to water cooled condenser machines, the piping is so short and the evaporator configured so well, they cannot be run at more than half a glass....They do not have the oil return problems of say a packaged unit or a split system, even air cooled Leiberts with roof mounted condenser fan coils have little to no problems with oil logging...If you run the oil levels higher than 1/2 glass, they will whip the oil and do almost exactly what the OP said it does....

These machines do not have (typically) crankcase heaters, IMHO they do not need them for two reasons, one, they are indoor compressors, two, they have liquid line solenoids and pump down upon shutdown...The pump down is another reason for the 1/2 glass recommendation...


I have a customer with a data center with over 100 CRU's and they are all Leiberts and Data Airs with 2 O6D compressors, not one has more than 1/2 a glass in the oil sight glass and have never had any oil related issues until they have a short cycle problem do to a worn liquid line solenoid that wont close off completely...

I was not trying to start a 30 post debate, I was merely sharing what I have learned regarding O6D's in CRU's....

Yes I have the Carlyle book, fact finder and teardown manual....The problem with running these with greater than half a glass is foaming and windage, they flat out do not need the extra oil for level fluctuations, which is why they say you CAN run them higher, but not without consequences, they carry oil out hard an much over 1/2.... True Story.

Not my first rodeo BTW.

GT