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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    20
    Can anyone tell me why frost collects on the ice cream containers in some of my reach in units. The door gaskets look good and the coils are not icing up so I think the defrost circuit is OK. Box Temp reads -20F

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Guayaquil EC
    Posts
    10,313
    If it were a door gasket leak you would find frost forming at the point of the leak(s). Don't run the case too cold....you only need -5 Deg F return for rock-hard ice cream. Make sure the defrost termination and fan delay is working.

    Also, I have found that round containers placed on the upper shelves will have a tendency to collect frost. When the door is opened, the cold dry air falls out of the bottom of the door opening and warm moist air rushes into the top. If the product's packaging allows this moisture laden air to flow in between the product, you're more likely to get frost buildup.

    Try moving the round product to the lower shelves. If all else fails, it may work for you.


  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    NH & Cebu
    Posts
    1,611
    Originally posted by icemeister
    Also, I have found that round containers placed on the upper shelves will have a tendency to collect frost. When the door is opened, the cold dry air falls out of the bottom of the door opening and warm moist air rushes into the top. If the product's packaging allows this moisture laden air to flow in between the product, you're more likely to get frost buildup.


    [/B]
    I have a customer that installed 24' of Tyler ice cream. I was not the installing company. They complained of frost forming on their round pints of ice cream. Contractor could not solve the problem. They flew a rep from Tyler in CA, cross country to look at it. Could not fix it.

    Your post is the first time I've seen someone else mention the problem. Makes sense. It's funny, because it's 4', upper part of the case, round containers only.

    You just never stop learning in this trade.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Guayaquil EC
    Posts
    10,313
    Relocating the tubs and other round stuff like frozen juice concentrates doesn't always work, but it's worth a try. The merchandisers and vendors of popular big ticket items like Hagen Daz don't like to move their products lower because "eye level" is prime real estate in the case.

    Extremely high volume stores can also be a problem because the doors are often open more than they're closed at some parts of the day.

  5. #5
    Y'all know by now ... I'm no expert on market cases ... (yet).
    But ... from my limited exposure ... I would wager a guess it has something to do with the humidity level inside the store.

  6. #6
    You would think that since humidity is such an issue in so many states, they would have a downstairs monitor with an alarm if either temp or humidity ever reached critical mass.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Guayaquil EC
    Posts
    10,313

    R12..........

    It's true that excessive humidity levels in the sales area will raise havoc with the cases, especially the low temps.

    In this matter, the frost accumulates on the round containers and not on the rectangular ones......so oftentimes just moving the round ones does the trick.

    If you were to keep the store at a dewpoint equal to the ice cream cases, it would be so dry that all the employees would turn into old prunes.

  8. #8
    I did it!!! I crossed 2004 posts!!! Yipee!!!


    Anyway .. on a more serious note here, Thanks Icemeister. I hadnt figured all that in.


    As far as a store having a staff of prunes ... I have already been to that particular store.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    7,755
    Round containers have air space between them for the in rushing air to travel around and through thereby making contact with a great deal more surface area than the flat containers.

    Flat container present a wall with no air spaces for the air to go into or around except for the first row. Notice next time that if any frost shows it's on the front of the flat boxes.
    "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers it can bribe the public with the public's own money.
    - Alexis de Toqueville, 1835

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    20
    Thanks for all the good replies, I am going to move things around in these cases and mabye even make a temporary air diffuser to try and solve this problem. Humidity in SF bay area is not to much of an issue and this store is air conditioned also. The case right net to it has frozen food at -5F with all kinds of shaped packaging and not a spec of frost on the product. ???????

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    501
    Also, you may want to make sure that the door frame heaters are working. Gaskets would definately be my first guess.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    1,166
    I believe there was also an issue at one time with Hussmann CRH? cases and the shelves. They were the wire rack type which would promote this movement of humid air around the product. All the glass doors I see now have solid shelving.
    That influx of warm moist air in the top and cold air out the bottom sounds like a good explanation!
    -12 to -15 discharge air is plenty cold for icecream.
    Watts New, Ohm My, I been Electrically Commutated. Are U2.

  13. #13
    Ice has it right. Rounds are no good on the top shelves Too much surface area exposed to the warm air entering the case when the doors are opened. I would also suspect that the case is running too cold. (-20 case temp) I would also sugegst checking the defrost duration. If it is too long you can drive moisture up to the top of the case which will cause product frosting.

    P.S.
    I have lived and worked the SF area for 27 years. It is a great place to live and work.

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