Recommendations please, private to honor board rules

[plainscraps]

Hello,
I have a fairly new Amana system (ASX-16 Heat pump) (96% AFUE furnace) Aprilaire 5000 electrostatic airfilter, APrilaire 500 humidifer (on an on). I am looking for a factory/trained certified Amana installer/maintainer in the Atlanta area to provide an independent analyisis of my installation and to check basics such as superheat/subcooling (TXV adjustments etc.) Essentially this system was installed (subsequently failed under warranty (twice)) and I need someone to correctly check for freon leaks pressures and TXV for optimum cooling. Again, please sned private messages because I believe open posting is against board policy. Thanks. BTW, the reason for this is I cannot seem to get my installer/dealer to COMPLETELY check superheat/subcooling. Only checks pressure, never applies ambient temp etc. in calculations.

[beenthere]

Regular members don't have PM ability. So no one can PM you.

It is not against forum rules for someone to offer to do your service call. As long as the fee is not discussed on the forum.

[skippedover]

Factory trained is one thing. Factory certified is an entirely different matter. I don't think you'll find a manufacturer anywhere these days who says they "Certify" anybody but their own employees. You say the system has failed twice but not what, specifically failed. How did you select the original company to do the work? Did they do a load analysis? If they don't know how to do superheat and subcooling, I doubt they did a load analysis and that company, IMO, should have been eliminated from the competition right then and there. Would potentially have saved you a lot of grief. Now you've gambled a whole lot of $$$ and maybe a whole lot of headaches. Wish you had asked us a long time ago!!

[plainscraps]

Hi,
Sorry. The first failure was the reversing valve in the heat pump. After that was replaced, the freon was put back in and left until summer. Once summer rolled around, it was not cooling well (suspect charge), then I noticed the TXV sensing bulb upside down in a vertical placement. Was EXTREMELY upset. Called the factory regional rep (had to beg to get him out here). He confirmed my find, ordered a new TXV valve and a whole NEW heat pump. Half a** put in place and charged by pressure only. No superheat/subcooling or TXV adjustments made. Hours more of discussions here on incorrect installation. Just looking for a person who KNOWS more than the doggone homeowner who will set this system up according to the factory specs. ANy help/recoomendations appreciated. :-) Thanks.

[plainscraps]

To further expand on what was/was not done at the time I purchased this system, please indulge me further. 6 estimates were obtained. The only estimate that performed a manual J was a mechanical engineer, who then after providing the estimate on Goodman system, put on the estimate that we would not guarantee the system to cool any better that 20 degrees below "outside temperature, then asked me to sign it. I refused. I believe, and correct me if I am wrong, that if he would have said 20 degrees cooler than INSIDE temp, I might have signed. This delta T across the coil is a sliding window as I understand it. Meaning, as a layman, I understand the output air across the coil should be 20 degrees cooler than the return temperature. This value should "slide" as the house cools. If the HVAC dealer (quoted above) was right, if it were a 100 degrees outside, it would never get any cooler than 80 in the house. He further estimated my system at a 3 ton after doing the manual J and adding no returns. The previous system was a 3 ton Trane with a mismatched 2.5 ton coil with only two returns for 1950 sq ft. (1991 system). This system runs just as much, and only cools a couple of degrees more (sounds underrated to me) than the old one. The other dealers simply bid the job with a 3 tons system (based on what was installed already) adding some returns and a couple of vents. I have, since the install, added 44 bags of cellulose insulation trying to help out....well it didn't. So, I just would like to have an honest, professional installer come out and check/setup my system according to specs and me pay for a service call. Sounds fair I believe. Just looking for any recommendations if your in the Atlanta area. BTW, my previous post was not meant offend anyone. It's just frustrating for a customer/layperson to find all these errors, mistakes and poor installation practices, when I paid a professional? so I wouldn't have too! It was not meant to mean I know more than a professional.....I don't! Thanks again.

[Darek]

Just call around, and ask for specific job You want to be done. Can you come and check super heat on my system? I would like to have the most expirienced tech that you have. There has to be someone who can do that job, maybe the Goodman guy that you did not buy from the system but did the mJ.

[jumpit]

Hi,
Sorry. The first failure was the reversing valve in the heat pump. After that was replaced, the freon was put back in and left until summer. Once summer rolled around, it was not cooling well (suspect charge), then I noticed the TXV sensing bulb upside down in a vertical placement. Was EXTREMELY upset. Called the factory regional rep (had to beg to get him out here). He confirmed my find, ordered a new TXV valve and a whole NEW heat pump. Half a** put in place and charged by pressure only. No superheat/subcooling or TXV adjustments made. Hours more of discussions here on incorrect installation. Just looking for a person who KNOWS more than the doggone homeowner who will set this system up according to the factory specs. ANy help/recoomendations appreciated. :-) Thanks.

Just to make sure. The ASX is a straight cooling unit. A ASZ is a heat pump. I hate to ask, but just to make sure.

[plainscraps]

You are absolutely right. It's a ASZ....am unsure why I put ASX. Thanks!

[beenthere]

No. Your can't quote/say it will cool the inside 20° cooler then the inside.

He said it the right way. 20° cooler then outdoor temp. Its a design temp difference.
How often does your area get to 100° outside temp?

I think your area doesn't generally go over 96.

[plainscraps]

No. Your can't quote/say it will cool the inside 20° cooler then the inside.

He said it the right way. 20° cooler then outdoor temp. Its a design temp difference.
How often does your area get to 100° outside temp?

I think your area doesn't generally go over 96.

In August September, it's not unusal to have 95-102 degree temperatures with 85-95% humidity. In response to your temperature statement..and not meaning to be a smarty, how often do you put in an estimate that the system will only cool 20 degrees lower than outside temperature? I know that (we know this is wrong and in error) that if I put a lets say 4 ton unit in place, it would cool no better than the 3 ton at the same temperature? I really need some clarification here so I can understand this if someone has time. Thank you.

[beenthere]

In August September, it's not unusal to have 95-102 degree temperatures with 85-95% humidity. In response to your temperature statement..and not meaning to be a smarty, how often do you put in an estimate that the system will only cool 20 degrees lower than outside temperature? I know that (we know this is wrong and in error) that if I put a lets say 4 ton unit in place, it would cool no better than the 3 ton at the same temperature? I really need some clarification here so I can understand this if someone has time. Thank you.

Check your design conditions. I believe you'll find its 96°. Meaning that you seldom have 102° outdoor temps. (Probably more like the humidity makes it feel like 102°)

A/Cs are sized to maintain a difference between outdoor and indoor temp.
So its performance is always what it will lower the indoor temp below the outdoor temp.

Most systems I size are sized to provide a 20° between outdoor and indoor temp. So yes, if its 100° outside, the inside temp will often reach 80° inside.

If you wanted a higher delta between indoor and outdoor temp. You have to tell the contractor/engineer. Problem though. Is now it may be too large for those mild days. And you could have high humidity. So that you need to add a dehumidifier. Or, you need to get a 2 stage A/C.

The amount of heat gain or loss through an object (wall, door, floor, ceiling, etc), is directly proportional to the amount of temperature difference between the 2 sides of that object.

At 100° outdoor temp, and 70° indoor temp. A wall with an R13 insulation value, gains 2.3 BTUs per hour.

At 100° outdoor temp, and 80° indoor temp. A wall with an R13 insulation value, gains 1.538 BTUs per hour.

At 90° outdoor temp, and 70° indoor temp. A wall with an R13 insulation value, gains 1.538 BTUs per hour.

Heating and cooling equipment is always sized on a temp difference between indoor and outdoor.

[plainscraps]

Check your design conditions. I believe you'll find its 96°. Meaning that you seldom have 102° outdoor temps. (Probably more like the humidity makes it feel like 102°)

Indeed. Longest run of over a hundred degrees that I can remember is a week or two.

Most systems I size are sized to provide a 20° between outdoor and indoor temp. So yes, if its 100° outside, the inside temp will often reach 80° inside.

If you wanted a higher delta between indoor and outdoor temp. You have to tell the contractor/engineer. Problem though. Is now it may be too large for those mild days. And you could have high humidity. So that you need to add a dehumidifier. Or, you need to get a 2 stage A/C.

I do. I have a ASZ16 Two-Stage Copeland UltraTech scroll compressor w/Two-speed quiet condenser fan motor. I also have the AMCV95 furnace Up to 95% AFUE Performance Two-Stage, Variable-Speed fan with enhanced dehumidification. With this, the other day at 84 degrees it ran 16 hours and at times in high speed (as indicated by the thermostat). I had my thermostat set at 73 (yes cool) however, based on load factors and the 20 degree rule (and other variables as you have indicated) I should have easily been able to achieve 73 degrees and satisfy the thermostats requirements.....yet it ran and ran.......and ran, failing to shut off until around 10:30pm that evening. I suspect my system is very capable of delivering the goods, I just suspect it has never been charged right. I have my EMC coming for a energy analysis and plan on having a manual J done again. The next move will be with an Amana/Goodman recommended dealer (which my dealer appears on their page). Hopefully this maintainer will simply check everything over for me and find some problems and recommend some solutions. I thank you all for your feedback. I really do appreciate it.

[heaterman]

I think you screwed up in your choice of contactors and should have gone with the mechanical engineer. As BT has stated, AC is a balancing act at best with numerous variables. If you would have expressed your delta T concerns with the engineer I'm pretty sure he could have turned your domicile into a freezer box, with a signed disclaimer that controlling humidity levels would be compromised by YOUR choices.