look before you leap...thanks dice

[hvac4u]

3 weeks ago boss got a call from a contractor building a pizza hut. he wants a bid on a new one going up here in town of 20,000 or so. i have done a lot more commercial than him and he asked my advice. looking at the plans i saw no problems for the install, but mentioned that we could possibly (probably) have a good deal of money tied up for 30 or more days. we are a small (3 trucks, 5 employees) company, 3 yrs old, only a few accounts. our decision was to pass.

he calls back today, says nobody else has entered bids (5 sets sent out), they are not interested.

boss calls me, now he wants to bid on it

i immediately thought of dice's posting on jobs to avoid, and wondered why no one else entered a bid, especially because at least 3 of them can easily afford to do a job like this.

called local sheet metal shop, buddy of mine runs it. he has priced the duct to 2 other companies, and told them the contractor was a slow pay at best due to his experience with him in the past.

no wonder they did not bid.

we decided to pass again.

if it looks too good, it usually is

[htg guy]

You said "slow pay" not "no pay" correct?
If I were you and had enough in your account to cover the material and labor costs for a while, I'd bid the job and put a nice extra chunk of OH & profit on it. Get a signed contract stating when payment is due, file all the legal paperwork as the job progresses and not worry about the slow pay.
If you get the signed contract, send out a notice of furnishings and do the waiver of liens throughout, you will have all you need to collect your money, even if it has to go to court. Just throw an extra 8 hours labor on the quote and a few thousand for laywers just in case.
I would'nt let somebody else walk in and make an easy piece of change, even if it takes a while to collect it.

[acmanko]

That sounds like a reasonable thought out answer. good advice.

[midhvac]

About 15 years ago I passed up on a similar Pizza Hut job. I just had a funny feeling about it for some reason. What was really odd was that 3 months later I was driving by there and the building was torn down!!

[htg guy]

Thats where a "notice of furnishings" and the waivers would come in handy for whoever did that job, before the building or property could have been sold they would have had to be paid.

[Diceman]

I used to do work for several PH around here. They were good on service and repair but I never got the chance to bid any bigger jobs or replacements. One time they sent these hillbilly looking guys around the country in a camper installing mini-splits in several of their stores, to help with the a/c load. These guys were a trip, had Colorado plates, small PU camper they lived in and u-haul. They went all over the country installing the mini units, and they threw em in quick, set the units on the el-cheapo pallets they ship on. I had to go back and fix a few of em.
Anyway, they are cheap at the corporate level and I doubt you would make any real dough on the job, add to that slow pay and the good work you missed cause you were tied up doing that, you made the right decision.
Those other bigger hvac companies have been there and done that with them.

[hvac45]

I will say again, that letter that Dice wrote was excellent, It explained a lot of pitfalls in this business, the newer guys should have it framed on their wall.

[Diceman]

Thanks bro.
Once in a while I come up with something useful.

[Dowadudda]

I agree with the part you get it right once in awhile..

[Diceman]

I'm always right even when I'm wrong.

[Workhorse]

Originally posted by Diceman
I'm always right even when I'm wrong.

You're right, you are wrong

[operator]

Where can I find Diceman's post?

[DeltaT]

http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?threadid=52200

Try this

[Diceman]

I myself am anxious for a new installment of the "Wirenuts."

[Stamas]

We had a PH account, 3 stores. These mini's showed up out of nowhere. We thought the electricians (whose co. also did HVAC) did them and they thought we did.
The main store, (thankfully we lost the account to the electricians), had 3 2 stage Rheem pkg heat pumps, on the main roof which was roofed over by the Red roof. They had a large fan that couldn't keep up even when it was running full tilt. 25+ years and the same equipment, (+ the mini and refer units) are still under that roof. Compressors and coils have all been changed at least once.

[DeltaT]

Originally posted by Diceman
I myself am anxious for a new installment of the "Wirenuts."

Well, Mr. Diceman. I have some bad and sad news for you. You see on your last post way over in the other non-subject matter you posted something about living our of reality or being out of reality and, well, Mrs. WireNut read it.

And you know how women are. She thinks you said she is not real and she is ready to rip you a pair of new wing nuts.

I don't know how to handle her now or what to do. Maybe in time she will cool down but I don't think so.

So if any of you guys know how to handle a wound-up-ready-to-do-some-damage woman, give us a hint.

[acmanko]

Get on your knees, paycheck in hand, beg for forgiveness and pass the check to prove your sincerity.

[Green Mountain]

In my company I do the estimating and the selling. That is a full time job. I get to go in the field once in awhile to help set equipment or to explain a job that I engineered. In the office I have 2 ladies who help keep track of all the jobs we got.

If you don't want to lose your ass you have to know your customers personally. Like most one man show operations do. Or like us, you have to get everything in writing.

So a 3 man outfit is right in the middle. I could take a job, like the pizza hut example, and not get burnt. While, if not experienced in this type of trading, then you might get burnt.
If they see that they can screw you then they might. If they see that there is no way to screw you then they will either stay clear of you or they won't try to screw you.

Does that make sense?

[DeltaT]

Originally posted by benncool
In my company I do the estimating and the selling. That is a full time job. I get to go in the field once in awhile to help set equipment or to explain a job that I engineered. In the office I have 2 ladies who help keep track of all the jobs we got.

If you don't want to lose your ass you have to know your customers personally. Like most one man show operations do. Or like us, you have to get everything in writing.

So a 3 man outfit is right in the middle. I could take a job, like the pizza hut example, and not get burnt. While, if not experienced in this type of trading, then you might get burnt.
If they see that they can screw you then they might. If they see that there is no way to screw you then they will either stay clear of you or they won't try to screw you.

Does that make sense?

I have no idea what you just said. But either way I'm not gonna get screwed, right?

[Diceman]

I don't either, I get very little in writing, so far I been lucky but I am small enough to keep my eyes on everything.