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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    540

    Converting back to R-11

    Has anyone converted a chiller back to 11 from 123 that was originally R-11? I had a customer ask me that today, but didn't want to promise him it could be done legally. His budgeting dept. has pushed back his replacement of a 1989 CVHE 500 for a couple of years. He needs more like 800t for the replacement, but thinks he can squeeze a little more out of the 500 with reverting it back to R-11. Seems straight forward. No gasket or seal compatibility issues and I can run the conversion serial # to find if the wheels were cut or orifices changed, but can it be done legally once the 11 to 123 conversion has been registered with Mother Trane?
    Low Pressure Forever!

    If you know heavy metal, you can work anywhere-Dave Andreson

    Anchors Aweigh my boys, Anchors Aweigh!
    Farewell to foreign shores, We sail at break of day. Through our last night on shore, Drink to the foam. Until we meet once more. Here's wishing you a happy voyage home!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    7,314
    in essence the rules say you cannot sell new equipment with that old favorite, but i dont think it would be an issue. just a thought...i know you lost some capacity when it was converted, but have you looked at oil in your charge? propeer oil management may get you some of your tonnage back. pull a sample from the cooler and have it checked.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Dixiana, AL
    Posts
    2,609
    Quote Originally Posted by ChillerWisperer View Post
    but can it be done legally once the 11 to 123 conversion has been registered with Mother Trane?

    I've never read anything in the rules and regs that addresses your question, but my thought would be that they stopped the mfr of 11, they didn't outlaw it. If I had a customer that wanted to go back, I'd jump on it and be thankful that my customer was that astute to want it done. The way I understand it, there's still a bunch of it out there. I know I never have a problem getting it.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    4,979
    Wheels may or may not been cut. Need to change orifice plates in liquid line and the economizer. The 123 plates have about 15% more openings. If the wheels wernt cut it probably is feasable. JMHO
    Your poor planning does not constitute an emergency on my part!!!!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    North Florida/South Georgia
    Posts
    984

    Still got to put it on the floor

    There is an issue with the o-rings. I can't remember all of the names (I've got them in a folder somewhere) but one type of o-ring is compatible with r11 & the other is not & vice versa.

    Abs is right about the orifices.
    All my leon freaked out!

  6. #6
    I don't think there is an issue with R-11 compatability with the o-rings. If you have R123 o-rings/gaskets, then they should be fine for R11.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    540
    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyEddie View Post
    I don't think there is an issue with R-11 compatability with the o-rings. If you have R123 o-rings/gaskets, then they should be fine for R11.
    There isn't an issue. R-11 is backwards compatible with R-123 gasket and o-ring material, but not vice-versa. This is just an idea we were kicking around. It is at a hospital that has an R-123 CVHE0650, an R-134a 750t YK, and this CVHE050 that is probably producing in the sub 400t range with R-123. The hospital normally runs on the two larger machines, but if one goes down or maintenance is being done, the smaller machine and one of the bigger machines just can't quite keep up. If we could squeeze 100 extra tons out of it, it would make a lot of difference. I need to drop and regasket the economizer anyway, so I think I could just TIG a plate on each of the orifice plates blocking the appropriate number of holes to simulate R-11 orifices. I have a buddy that does large scale recovery and will trade me 11 for the 123 after he pulls it out, minus whatever the differential and his labor would be. But like I said, it's just an idea we were kicking around.
    Low Pressure Forever!

    If you know heavy metal, you can work anywhere-Dave Andreson

    Anchors Aweigh my boys, Anchors Aweigh!
    Farewell to foreign shores, We sail at break of day. Through our last night on shore, Drink to the foam. Until we meet once more. Here's wishing you a happy voyage home!

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