Results 1 to 11 of 11
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Guayaquil EC
    Posts
    10,328
    In planning the installation of a KM600 Hoshizaki with remote condenser I had the customer arrange with his electrician to run a 20A-230/115V 4-wire circuit to a disconnect on the wall next to where the machine was going. I wrote it down for him and further explained that I needed 230V with a neutral for the 115.

    I get to the job and see the box labeled "115V 20 amp 2 circuits".

    I checked the panel and see two new single pole breakers. I check at the box and then find that Sparky plugged his breakers into the high leg....on both of them, so I'm getting two hundred something volts to ground and zero between (cause they're on the same phase).

    I get him on the phone and he says yeah, yeah .....they know all about 3-phase and the high leg stuff and he'll send a guy out to check it out.

    The next day I go back a find stuff moved around and a new 2-pole breaker but one side is still on the high leg, so I call the electrician back and tell him it's still not right. He says that just make sure that the 115V side isn't on the high leg and I'll be OK.

    I don't like doing that and as far as I know the Code allows it, but what can you do in a case like this? Anyway I told the customer about it and noted it on my invoice that in my opinion the machine is improperly wired and will void any warranty either from me or the factory.

    What do you think?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    SouthEast NC ICW & Piedmont Foothills
    Posts
    7,635
    Electrician is an idiot.
    Either too sorry or too stupid to do it safely.
    It`s better to be silent and thought the fool; than speak and remove all doubt.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Guayaquil EC
    Posts
    10,328
    I was just ranting, really. This kind of crap happens all the time and it kinda ticks me off that even some of the most reputable electrical contractors send "hooker-upper" electricians out on jobs that should be handled by somebody who actually knows what's what. If this outfit was some hack handyman, jack-of-all-trades type, well I'd just have to say that's what you get.

    My neighbor at the the shop is an electrical contractor with a crew of 7 or 8 guys doing mostly residential new construction. I mentioned this one to him and he said since he lost his best lead man his other techs probably wouldn't have done any better, so he'd would have had to go out and redo it himself.......which is why he doesn't even take on small commercial work like this anymore.

    Again, it just makes me mad when I'm technically prohibited from doing any kind of electrical work in the panel and yet on nearly every install or remodel work, I have to hold ole' Sparky by the hand and show him how to do his job right.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Chandler, Arizona
    Posts
    231
    Originally posted by icemeister


    Again, it just makes me mad when I'm technically prohibited from doing any kind of electrical work in the panel and yet on nearly every install or remodel work, I have to hold ole' Sparky by the hand and show him how to do his job right.

    Are you sure Icemiester,? Where are you located,? I know here in Arizona, On all of My licenses (res, comm & Spec.) I am allowed to run my own circuit from anywhere to the panel But limited to just that. I am not allowed to install a subpanel.

    It also helps that my uncle is the Guru Electrician. If I ever need help or have any questions.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Guayaquil EC
    Posts
    10,328
    I'm in Florida, and my wiring stops at a suitable means of disconnect, like a pull switch or fused disconnect.

    Of course, I'll do it here and there but this store is next door to City Hall and not a good place to be pressing your luck.

    Technically, I need to pull a permit to install an ice machine....Sparky has to pull a permit to fuc.....er, I mean, hook up the wires and Bubba the Plumber needs to pull a permit to connect the water line and drains.

    That'll be the freakin' day.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Chandler, Arizona
    Posts
    231
    Wow Man! All that Bureaucracy would drive me crazy. How do you get anything done? I cant believe you cant even run the drains or water lines.

    Technically we have to pull permits here too, But it is rarely done. I feel for you guys man.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Guayaquil EC
    Posts
    10,328
    Originally posted by CoolCopperUSMC
    Technically we have to pull permits here too, But it is rarely done.....
    Actually, the only one that the inspectors around here might get in a huff over is the electrical if it's just the icemaker going in. If it's new construction with all the trades involved it's another ball game.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Orange County CA
    Posts
    1,084
    I had a sparky run me control wires about 400 feet for solinoids and termination for a food storage warehouse I was starting up.

    He ran white and black for a 208/230 control circuit.
    I said you should NOT do this.Everyone thinks 115v with white and black. He repulled it.

    Then he ran 2 more lines , but this time he changed colors from coils to C.U. 2 times.....I said how in the hell is someone not going to get confused with this in 3-4 years when there is troublshooting to be done?


    luckily they are not all like this

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    East Stroudsburg, PA
    Posts
    13,215
    Yesterday morning, I had a 600 Amp fuse in an MDP blown. Store with no refirg, no meat dept., no trash compactor...

    After I ahd replaced the main, I started going around turning on each load one at a time. Every three phase panel I encountered had the words "HIGH LEG" sloppily written in sharpie pen on every third KO. I got to one panel that was like this, except for the upper left hand KO....

    It was missing, and the handwriting was EXTREMELY sloppy, shaky, almost, on the rest of the KO's. I though to myself, "HMMMMMMM, I see SOMEONE got a little surprise here."

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Guayaquil EC
    Posts
    10,328

    Dave.......

    .....and on a Sunday morning you were able to lay your mitts on a 600 amp fuse? Don't tell me you keep them in that truck, too!

    The guy doing the scribbling was likely an electrician who just got his first field lesson on high legs in three phase panels.

    I got a call from a C-Store not long ago where I had recently replaced the compressor in a self-contained reach-in. The customer said the box is hot and there was a bad smell yesterday, like something burning. It turns out, they had a sign company install a new storefront signage the day before, and I found that they had moved some stuff around in the panel to make room for their two new single pole breakers.

    Well, they had moved the reach-in circuit and another one (with a microwave and security monitor & VHS recorder) to open high leg slots. It toasted the relay and start cap on the compressor and fried the microwave and security stuff. I told him by the time he got back from Sam's with new electronics, I'd have the box up and running again but the sign sparkies fried his compressor warranty, too.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Western New York
    Posts
    1,047
    Had a warranty call on a new drug store with a True 2 door freezer. 3-wire 220v with the neutral for the 115. Sparky saw 3 wires... 3 wires = 3 phase, right? Cooked the evap fan motors, defrost timer, melted the drain hose closed with 220 going thru the little heater they put in the tubing.

    A big mess, especially trying to figure out who had to eat the cost of a new freezer.
    Experience is what you have an hour after you need it.

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