Union Problems

[secorp]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by htg guy

Originally posted by secorp


"you lose the right to sue"!

Sue, Sue, Sue!!! Who do you want to sue?

Your own union for one, who's watching the watchers, no one that's who. go check the back of your card....were it says the union represents you, that means you also gave up your right to sue. this especially includes your own union. like it or not when you go union they buy you out. never seen a rep yet that did not drive up in a 50,000 auto.
The union uses the law to sue non union as well as union, only difference you no longer have that right, unless the union says its OK!

[Edited by secorp on 06-12-2004 at 10:18 AM]

[secorp]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by frozensolid
[B]

Originally posted by secorp
Freedom and choice, choose the union and you have neither. once the deed is done and you go union they become your agent in all walks of life. the union tells you when and who to vote, the union OWNS you, without your vote the union dies, when you sign the card you lose the right to sue.

Funny, I don't remember them being in the voting booth with me.

Nobody owns me. If you can't think for yourself, don't blame the union.

Oh sorry honey I forgot.

Just as long as you never challange the union you will never know. speak out at union hall meeting enough and you will be shown the door, for your opinion. vote against the union enough and they will be glad to find you a job every other two days, until they break you. the union needs all its sheep in the flock or they are dead in the water. rock the boat at you own peril, like I said when you go union you have no choice, you give up that right.

[Edited by secorp on 06-12-2004 at 10:27 AM]

[bmt tinman]

I was in the Sheet Metal Loc 49 for 10 years. Regan got into office and I had to get out (1986) to support myself as at that time they had a hiring hall list and it had 1/3 of the 600 man on it. I have been a Mechincail contractor in NM and have had to work for non-union shops. I even went in to plumbing as to make money. And it boils down to this, Is the union leadership helping the company make money as to give us a raise and keep our benefits? Or are they hurting the company and me so I lose my job and have to fight to find a new one.

[Dowadudda]

The Trades Unions like the United Association of Steamfitters, are different than like the UAW or teamsters or any of those. Listen. You always hear of the newly organized shops. Some of those shops got organized because the workers decided to vote a union in. To me that says, the owner was not properly compensating. And possibly was running a screwy shop.

The machinist union, if your a mechanic for that kind of union, maybe even say a mechanic for UAW where you work as an HVAC guy at a plant. It's not even close to the same as like the UA. The UA's entire existence depends on Contractors themselves that beleive in the union. Most top union companys, there owners, they themselves beleive in union and have been union since they started. I have no idea and I shouldn't have said most. Most I know have been though.

I think too you all get way too caught up that there is this political thing in the Trades Unions. Yeagh, it's all politics at the top levels, but for the average electrician, average plumber, average joe blow HVAC/R guy. It offers a good living, a good pension, a good health plan, and now most of the UA locals and IBEW locals, on top of the pension your getting your extra for 401K too. It's got what really good guys want. It pays better. No guy has to remain union. Thats stupid. But many guys don't leave cause it's good money all the way around. And then when you can also have the other intangibles such as the guy expecting of safe job sites, training.

Training, you aint beating the UA for that. It's there and it's better than any trade school certificate, Associates ect. Ferris State University has recently certified the UA nationally, that if your a trained 5 year apprentice and upon testing for and obtainng your journey level status, they reward you with an accredited Associates. That didn't happen by way of greased hands or payoffs. Take a look at what these kids got to now know to be a journey in the UA. It's pretty intense.

This arguement of for it and against it. Use little arguements. The major issues that have bveen brought over and over here are all about these consipiracy theories and such.

Bottom line for many union guys that work there trade is that the money is better and that is true. But if they got a better offer non union if it all spells out in dollars and cents, most guys would jump off the union. But the case is, few companies beat out the union on pay and bennies and for the good tradesmen, thats where they go. Top bidder.

[frozensolid]

Well stated Dow.

I have a non union friend who loves to tell me earns the same hourly as I do. And he does not have to pay dues.

He does not have a retirement, and it cost him $600.00 a month to cover his family with healthcare.

I'll pay the dues.

[coolestacman]

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rookie903 quote

I have heard different things about unions. In Texas, if a company gets stuck with a union, then they probably deserve it. I don't agree with what the union is doing now, threatening to strike during the busiest time of the year.
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Just when would you like to strike, when it is slow and nothing to do?
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Keallii quote

Fact, the unions have been on a steady decline for the past few decades, it's called evolution.....
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Yes that is a true fact the unions are in decline and the gap between the rich and the middle class is growing, very interesting I wonder if this gap growth has anything to do with the fact people think they can do it on their own.
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keallii quote

Yes the unions do represent a minority of the American workers and union members do get fair pay and benefits, but the reality of it is that despite what the union may have you believe, there is a very large segment of the American workforce out here that does not work union and does make very good money and gets a very good benefit package
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Yes and an even larger segment of the work force is working for less and no benifits.
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keallii quote

No the unions never have and never will represent me and all thier lobbying in Congress is not for my benefit or the benefit of the masses of American workers, it's for the benefit of the union and only the union.
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Weather you like to believe it or not when the unions lobby the goverment even though it is in their interest many of their concerns are concerns of all workers.
They lobby to make safer work enviroments, equal rights for all, and also have been fighting the outsourcing that is going on in North America.

[Dowadudda]

I hear this thing about, "I'll never let a Union Represent me". I am telling you. It's not all like this big political thing. Talk your talk if you must, but when I hear that, I myself think, that you don't truly get the real way it is in a trade union. Not a UAW or Teamsters or whatever. A union that focuses on the trades. UA, IBEW, ect. The average good tradesman. A guy who is a worthwhile guy. A guy who is knowledgeable. He makes more bones as a union guy overall. And also there are a few non union guys who also make a good living. Really truly read what I spoke of in that long post. If you a tech working in the feild and are good, you'll make more money, you'll get more bennies, you'll see more oppurtunity to train yourself to move ahead. Oppurtunity is abound for you if your good, union or non union. But you will make more money in the union.

[Dowadudda]

My biggest thing about this is this. I looked real deep into the UA as an employer. I have many good freinds in the UA and I have some decent realtionships of Signatory Contractors of the UA. I seen a lot of what I talk about in my above posts with my own two eyes. For the contractor, for the technician, for the betterment of the trade, it's a good thing.

I hear all this banter of this is evil and thats whats wrong with America and all that. Your trade union is fighting to keep work here in the USA, the trade unions are fighting for your money. And when I say they, I truly mean, the tech and his contractor. You all got to understand this is not a union of workers only. Many contractors who are union contractors choose to be. There not forced to like you all seem to think. The UA's standpoint is, we got this, this and this. Do you want to become a part of it.

Before anyone here comments any more, do me a quick favor. Simply ask around, check it out. Really research it. The UA, the IBEW, the Plumbers, you guys have no idea how hard "They" ( Contractors and their employees) are fighting for us to remain a valid and good option to overseas, to a good wage, to a benefit package that allows you to take care of your family's needs. Just check it out before you knock it is all I am saying. You might surprize yourself. I, personally was floored and am now trying to take steps to become UA.

You all compalin of hacks, and you all complain of side job idiots and Home Depot and everything under the sun. The Trades Unions are in complete agreement. They are on your side. And another thing, just like non union. If you suck, or your lazy or your a bad apple, you won't work, thus you won't earn the benefits. No different than non union. I will go further. If you suck, you won't work as a union guy. It cost a contractor too much coin to have your rates paid if you aint worth it. It is as simple as it gets. Plus, since he is union usually, he'll see you and see how unproductive you might be and see his own benefits he pays into go down cause your milking it. If you suck, you don't work.

[frozensolid]

The anti-union attitude has been drilled into the American workers brain. This has been done very effectively. No one seems to notice the fact that as the American unions declined, so did American wages.