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Thread: Union Problems

  1. #14
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    Jun 2004
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    13
    Don't know about you, I served 10 years in th Army My oldest son served 4 in the Navy, my yougest son is finishing his 6 in the Army, my father and his brother both served in WW2 and both my grandfathers served in the Army. I have an extreme personal interest in the very values and beliefs that my family has fought for for so many generations. One of which is the freedom of choice. The unions have helped build this country's workplace and in the same stroke created some of the worse corruption ever seen. Let's deal in historical facts not rhetoric. Fact, the unions have been on a steady decline for the past few decades, it's called evolution. Yes the unions do represent a minority of the American workers and union members do get fair pay and benefits, but the reality of it is that despite what the union may have you believe, there is a very large segment of the American workforce out here that does not work union and does make very good money and gets a very good benefit package. That's how so many companies keep the unions out, by taking care of the workers. My father's father worked union for over 20 years before the Depression hit. After which he never went back to the union again and instilled in his son's and myself that we didn't need a union to "represent" us. This from a man that watched friends, neighbors and coworkers get beaten by the company goons for union organizing. There was a time in this country when a worker needed the unions to keep from being treated unfairly, now a competent worker with a brain can look out for himself and his family and live a very comfortable life. No the unions never have and never will represent me and all thier lobbying in Congress is not for my benefit or the benefit of the masses of American workers, it's for the benefit of the union and only the union.

  2. #15
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    Oct 2003
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    Sherman, TX
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    I have heard different things about unions. In Texas, if a company gets stuck with a union, then they probably deserve it. I don't agree with what the union is doing now, threatening to strike during the busiest time of the year.

  3. #16
    Senior Tech Guest
    Originally posted by coolestacman
    I relay do not think you should be bringing the great men and women of the armed forces into this as many of those men and women are union people and many that have died are union.
    They are fighting for democracy and freedom and the right for others to be unionized.

    You should look into unions and you will find that day to day the union movement is protecting the democracy that gives you the right to decide weather or not you want ot be union. This is done by lobbying the Government.
    I'm proud, I'm trained, I'm not union...

  4. #17
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    Dec 2003
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    Middle of Florida
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    Freedom and choice, choose the union and you have neither. once the deed is done and you go union they become your agent in all walks of life. the union tells you when and who to vote, the union OWNS you, without your vote the union dies, when you sign the card you lose the right to sue.
    If common sense is so common how come so few of us have it!

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
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    3,182

    Hmm

    Originally posted by secorp
    Freedom and choice, choose the union and you have neither. once the deed is done and you go union they become your agent in all walks of life. the union tells you when and who to vote, the union OWNS you, without your vote the union dies, when you sign the card you lose the right to sue.

    "you lose the right to sue"!

    Sue, Sue, Sue!!! Who do you want to sue? This is one of the reasons for union. They help to ensure that places of employment adhere to the laws and codes of each state. Which in turn helps in preventing accidents, and therefore helps to keep all those greedy lawyers unemployed.
    People need to stop looking for the easy way out and earn their money the american way. WORK FOR IT!

  6. #19
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    Apr 2003
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    Originally posted by coolestacman
    Join The Union fight.


    Im probably going to piss some people off with this one.

    But, I'm going to say peace about the International Machinists Union. When I was 10 years old my Dad didn't come home from work because of a boiler that was faulty from the manufacturer. So, my Mom is looking for people she trust. My Grandfather and my Uncle were both hardcore Millwrights. My other Uncle was (and still is) hardcore IBEW. They said, trust the Union. So, the union Reps. talk to her and say you have the grounds to sue the manufacturer. We have a "good lawyer". They just forgot to mention what good meant. Turns out good meant good and in their pocket. The lawyer advised her to settle for a piss ant amount. Unfortunately, she was young and didn't know any better. So, all you union guys keep paying your dues letting your Reps. live the high life off your work. When you go to work rest assured that if something happens while your there that your union friends will be there to help your family in the end. Because that is where they will get it. IN THE END!! Hey Rookie, Tell the International Machinists Union they can kiss my ass!!

    Eric

  7. #20
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    Originally posted by secorp
    Freedom and choice, choose the union and you have neither. once the deed is done and you go union they become your agent in all walks of life. the union tells you when and who to vote, the union OWNS you, without your vote the union dies, when you sign the card you lose the right to sue.
    Funny, I don't remember them being in the voting booth with me.

    Nobody owns me. If you can't think for yourself, don't blame the union.

    Oh sorry honey I forgot.

    [Edited by frozensolid on 06-12-2004 at 09:55 AM]
    A Diamond is just a piece of coal, that made good under pressure!

  8. #21
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    [QUOTE]Originally posted by htg guy
    Originally posted by secorp


    "you lose the right to sue"!

    Sue, Sue, Sue!!! Who do you want to sue?
    Your own union for one, who's watching the watchers, no one that's who. go check the back of your card....were it says the union represents you, that means you also gave up your right to sue. this especially includes your own union. like it or not when you go union they buy you out. never seen a rep yet that did not drive up in a 50,000 auto.
    The union uses the law to sue non union as well as union, only difference you no longer have that right, unless the union says its OK!

    [Edited by secorp on 06-12-2004 at 10:18 AM]
    If common sense is so common how come so few of us have it!

  9. #22
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    [QUOTE]Originally posted by frozensolid
    [B]
    Originally posted by secorp
    Freedom and choice, choose the union and you have neither. once the deed is done and you go union they become your agent in all walks of life. the union tells you when and who to vote, the union OWNS you, without your vote the union dies, when you sign the card you lose the right to sue.
    Funny, I don't remember them being in the voting booth with me.

    Nobody owns me. If you can't think for yourself, don't blame the union.

    Oh sorry honey I forgot.

    Just as long as you never challange the union you will never know. speak out at union hall meeting enough and you will be shown the door, for your opinion. vote against the union enough and they will be glad to find you a job every other two days, until they break you. the union needs all its sheep in the flock or they are dead in the water. rock the boat at you own peril, like I said when you go union you have no choice, you give up that right.

    [Edited by secorp on 06-12-2004 at 10:27 AM]
    If common sense is so common how come so few of us have it!

  10. #23
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    May 2003
    Location
    Hanover PA
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    17

    Union or not to union this is the question

    I was in the Sheet Metal Loc 49 for 10 years. Regan got into office and I had to get out (1986) to support myself as at that time they had a hiring hall list and it had 1/3 of the 600 man on it. I have been a Mechincail contractor in NM and have had to work for non-union shops. I even went in to plumbing as to make money. And it boils down to this, Is the union leadership helping the company make money as to give us a raise and keep our benefits? Or are they hurting the company and me so I lose my job and have to fight to find a new one.

  11. #24
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    Michigan
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    The Trades Unions like the United Association of Steamfitters, are different than like the UAW or teamsters or any of those. Listen. You always hear of the newly organized shops. Some of those shops got organized because the workers decided to vote a union in. To me that says, the owner was not properly compensating. And possibly was running a screwy shop.

    The machinist union, if your a mechanic for that kind of union, maybe even say a mechanic for UAW where you work as an HVAC guy at a plant. It's not even close to the same as like the UA. The UA's entire existence depends on Contractors themselves that beleive in the union. Most top union companys, there owners, they themselves beleive in union and have been union since they started. I have no idea and I shouldn't have said most. Most I know have been though.

    I think too you all get way too caught up that there is this political thing in the Trades Unions. Yeagh, it's all politics at the top levels, but for the average electrician, average plumber, average joe blow HVAC/R guy. It offers a good living, a good pension, a good health plan, and now most of the UA locals and IBEW locals, on top of the pension your getting your extra for 401K too. It's got what really good guys want. It pays better. No guy has to remain union. Thats stupid. But many guys don't leave cause it's good money all the way around. And then when you can also have the other intangibles such as the guy expecting of safe job sites, training.

    Training, you aint beating the UA for that. It's there and it's better than any trade school certificate, Associates ect. Ferris State University has recently certified the UA nationally, that if your a trained 5 year apprentice and upon testing for and obtainng your journey level status, they reward you with an accredited Associates. That didn't happen by way of greased hands or payoffs. Take a look at what these kids got to now know to be a journey in the UA. It's pretty intense.

    This arguement of for it and against it. Use little arguements. The major issues that have bveen brought over and over here are all about these consipiracy theories and such.

    Bottom line for many union guys that work there trade is that the money is better and that is true. But if they got a better offer non union if it all spells out in dollars and cents, most guys would jump off the union. But the case is, few companies beat out the union on pay and bennies and for the good tradesmen, thats where they go. Top bidder.












  12. #25
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    Jan 2004
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    Earth
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    Well stated Dow.

    I have a non union friend who loves to tell me earns the same hourly as I do. And he does not have to pay dues.

    He does not have a retirement, and it cost him $600.00 a month to cover his family with healthcare.

    I'll pay the dues.
    A Diamond is just a piece of coal, that made good under pressure!

  13. #26
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    May 2004
    Location
    Toronto
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    -----------------------------------------------------------
    rookie903 quote

    I have heard different things about unions. In Texas, if a company gets stuck with a union, then they probably deserve it. I don't agree with what the union is doing now, threatening to strike during the busiest time of the year.
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    Just when would you like to strike, when it is slow and nothing to do?
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    Keallii quote

    Fact, the unions have been on a steady decline for the past few decades, it's called evolution.....
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    Yes that is a true fact the unions are in decline and the gap between the rich and the middle class is growing, very interesting I wonder if this gap growth has anything to do with the fact people think they can do it on their own.
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    keallii quote

    Yes the unions do represent a minority of the American workers and union members do get fair pay and benefits, but the reality of it is that despite what the union may have you believe, there is a very large segment of the American workforce out here that does not work union and does make very good money and gets a very good benefit package
    -----------------------------------------------------------

    Yes and an even larger segment of the work force is working for less and no benifits.
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    keallii quote

    No the unions never have and never will represent me and all thier lobbying in Congress is not for my benefit or the benefit of the masses of American workers, it's for the benefit of the union and only the union.
    -----------------------------------------------------------

    Weather you like to believe it or not when the unions lobby the goverment even though it is in their interest many of their concerns are concerns of all workers.
    They lobby to make safer work enviroments, equal rights for all, and also have been fighting the outsourcing that is going on in North America.

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