Repair or replace?

[I_bend_metal]

Since the tech is telling you to have the lines flushed and an acid treatment put into the lines I will assume it was acid that killed your last compressor....


No matter what your decision is, if they are going to reuse that lineset, make sure that nitrogen is flowed during any and all brazing, make sure the system is pressure tested and make sure that when they pull a vacuum on the system they use a micron gauge.....

.....acid is caused by things in those lines (moisture) that isn't supposed to be there....a good and thorough install is the key to a lasting system.....


Good luck

[beenthere]

If you change the outdoor unit, you need to change the indoor coil.

With your posted rates. It would cost you more to heat with a heat pump then with a gas furnace.

Most heat pumps would only be cheaper at outdoor temps above 60(and thats if the furnace was only 80% efficient).

[acproblems]

how long does a gas furnace usually last? do any parts go bad? do they need to be serviced?

[beenthere]

Some last only 7 years, some last 40 years.
Yes, there are parts that can wear out. And a furnace should be checked annually. For safety and proper efficient operation.

[REP]

The tech recommended flushing the lines, using an acid neutralizer, and then adding the freon back in (regardless of replacement or new).

with regards to the current system, the furnace is gas. The furnace is located in the attic along with the ac coils attached to it. The main ac unit is located outside. The tech suggested switching from an ac unit, to a heat pump. Not really sure of the advantages, however the new unit (heat pump, air handler and coil) would all be electric. I live in phoenix, so not sure if heat pump is better, and also not sure if I will save going from gas to electric for the heat. Old ac unit is 12 seer and new heat pump unit combined is 15 seer.

I really suggest you replace the line set on a new unit.
You can't reuse the freon,its acidic AND its r22.Your new unit will be r410 and it will come with the new unit .You might need to top that off with a longer than 15' line set.
I have used acid netralizer for very rare occasions but I don't like doing it.It means adding something extra into the system of freon and oil,something extra that the compressor was not originally designed to process.

[prorefco]

At .77 per therm, the APPLIED cost per therm is about .83 give or take (assuming 90% condensing furnace)....

A heat pump with a 12 eer rating (not seer) at .12 per kWh will give you about .83 per therm assuming no useage of the electric back-up heat and with outdoor temps above 40ºF...

The heat from a heat pump will not "feel" as warm as with gas but will keep the house at the desired temp. A heat pump will also take longer to warm the house up from a set-back. But honestly, if your typical winter lows are 40º, a heat pump will do just fine...

Here in VA we see winter low temps typicaly in the low 20ºs and occasionally down to
10ºF and heat pumps do very well here...

Just my .02

[dan wong]

I am in Phoenix, Arizona. Heat pump is ideally suited for desert climate. If you opted for replacement. go with a heat pump.
That said, if this is my own property, I would replace the compressor only. Flush out the line set, add a bottle of acid neutralizer, add liquid line and suction line filter/dryer.

[mrbenz7]

The tech came up with those repairs because they are necessary for the job. Anytime you open a refrigeration system to atmosphere you should always replace/ install a liquid line drier. If it was a burnout, a suction line drier should also be installed and then removed or replaced in the near future. Just like with any motor replacement, the capacitor should be replaced whether it's good or not. The contactor could be pitted or arched, so replacement of that is good insurance of proper voltage to the new compressor. Anytime I replace a compressor, I use virgin refrigerant. I think it was a good tech that came out to diagnose the problem. On the flip side, with the unit being 10 years old, I would recommend replacement of the unit rather than replacing the compressor. I think a heat pump in Phoenix wouldn't be a bad idea.

Of course if it needs those parts I would replace them as well, but in the post that started this thread, it was not clear if there was a compressor burn or not. Also, many new techs, especially in the Phoenix area are not paid a salary or an hourly wage, they get paid on commissions only! The likelyhood of getting parts replaced that didn't really need it is very high because unless the tech can make a sale, he isn't going to get paid for this service call!
He's not going to make any money unless he can sell something to his customer.
I wasn't trying to be rude and I'm not one of those who will sell parts to a customer that he does not need, but for some techs working on commissions, a license is a license to steal and I'm not well for it. After reading the original post that started this thread, I had concerns with what I was reading, that's all. If that was the TRUE situation, I don't disagree with you.

[acproblems]

Yes. The compressor was the issue...bad windings. Tech suggested replacing the capacitor, contactor plate and filter to make sure it was a good job done.

[big sky hvac]

Of course if it needs those parts I would replace them as well, but in the post that started this thread, it was not clear if there was a compressor burn or not. Also, many new techs, especially in the Phoenix area are not paid a salary or an hourly wage, they get paid on commissions only! The likelyhood of getting parts replaced that didn't really need it is very high because unless the tech can make a sale, he isn't going to get paid for this service call!
He's not going to make any money unless he can sell something to his customer.
I wasn't trying to be rude and I'm not one of those who will sell parts to a customer that he does not need, but for some techs working on commissions, a license is a license to steal and I'm not well for it. After reading the original post that started this thread, I had concerns with what I was reading, that's all. If that was the TRUE situation, I don't disagree with you.

I can understand salesmen working off commission, but service techs?? Where I work, we get paid hourly through billable hours. If we aren't billing a customer, we're not getting paid. It must be pretty cutthroat down there. I couldn't work service and be paid only by commission, I'd find a different company to work for. I can understand how some people would be a little leary about having parts replaced if that's the only way a tech makes money. Unfortunately, some techs aren't really techs but are actually parts changers until they get it fixed. This tech that came out to the OP's house sounds like he knows what he's doing. Love your dog by the way.

[mrbenz7]

Yes. The compressor was the issue...bad windings. Tech suggested replacing the capacitor, contactor plate and filter to make sure it was a good job done.

Then he did right by you. An Honest tech is good to find. I would also recommend if you fix this, to have the lines flushed out with Dry Nitrogen and solvent to remove what you can as far as impurities go. Replacing any questionable parts at this point is a really good idea since you have come this far. Even a Compressor run cap should be replaced with new if installing a new compressor.

[big sky hvac]

Yes. The compressor was the issue...bad windings. Tech suggested replacing the capacitor, contactor plate and filter to make sure it was a good job done.

I still would invest in a new unit rather than just the compressor. Sure the compressor is under warranty, but you're only going to get another year of warranty on the new compressor unless you can purchase an extended warranty it. You still have a 10 year old unit that could have the condenser fan motor go out next year or next month. I would not invest any more money into your old A/C IMO. A heat pump would probably work fine, but if I were in your position, I'd stick with the gas furnace, don't go electric. If I had the choice between natural gas or electric, I'd choose natural gas everytime. With a heat pump, the temp. rise is lower than a furnace, which means a longer recovery time. Gas heat is just better IMO. If you're planning on replacing the furnace, go with a 90% furnace(with variable speed blower) and a high efficiency A/C. You're going to use the A/C more months out of the year than the heat. I would invest more money into the A/C(higher SEER) to get a bigger return on your investment. You could still go with a heat pump(I'm not saying they're bad)I'm just saying don't trade your gas furnace in for an air handler with electric strips, it may cost you more in operating costs in the future vs. gas heat.

[mrbenz7]

I can understand salesmen working off commission, but service techs?? Where I work, we get paid hourly through billable hours. If we aren't billing a customer, we're not getting paid. It must be pretty cutthroat down there. I couldn't work service and be paid only by commission, I'd find a different company to work for. I can understand how some people would be a little leary about having parts replaced if that's the only way a tech makes money. Unfortunately, some techs aren't really techs but are actually parts changers until they get it fixed. This tech that came out to the OP's house sounds like he knows what he's doing. Love your dog by the way.

Yeah, he's a pretty smart dog! Here in the valley it isn't uncommon for techs to be paid 25% on all service calls and 10% for new unit sales! Unfortunately some techs make really good money being a parts swapper who don't know how to use a PT chart! I don't know how many times I've gone out to a customers house and had to solve their problem by straightening out what the last tech did and some of these are pretty boneheaded mistakes.

[acproblems]

what would the advantage of going with an ac unit that had a 2 stage compressor?

[big sky hvac]

what would the advantage of going with an ac unit that had a 2 stage compressor?

Better efficiency.

[acproblems]

in phoenix, we use the heat 3-4 months, and ac 6-8 months. Winter temp typically does not go below 40 and we keep the house around 70, and in the summer temps are typically 110 to 115 at the hottest part, and we keep the house around 80, would you suggest one is better than the other (heat pump vs ac)? Thank you.

[big sky hvac]

in phoenix, we use the heat 3-4 months, and ac 6-8 months. Winter temp typically does not go below 40 and we keep the house around 70, and in the summer temps are typically 110 to 115 at the hottest part, and we keep the house around 80, would you suggest one is better than the other (heat pump vs ac)? Thank you.

This is just my opinion, others may have a different opinion. Because generally natural gas is less expensive than electricity(for the time being), if it were me, I'd invest more money into a higher efficiency A/C, than concentrating on your heating bills. You can still use a heat pump with a gas furnace, but the life expectancy of the compressor is going to be lower than with an A/C. There is no magic formula to predict how long a compressor will last(too many variables), but the way I look at it is that it's going to run 6-8 months in cooling, then add the heating season and it's going to fail sooner than if it's only running during cooling season. The compressor is basically like the engine in a car, the more miles you put on it, the sooner you'll have to replace it.(the car before the engine more than likely) To me it seems you're going to spend more money on cooling than heating, so why not invest your money by upgrading to a higher SEER A/C, than investing in a heat pump. You can certainly invest in a higher SEER heat pump, but you're always going to pay more for a heat pump than a straight A/C unit. By just doing an A/C, you can spend the extra money you'd be putting toward a heat pump into a higher SEER A/C instead. Just a thought.

[mrbenz7]

in phoenix, we use the heat 3-4 months, and ac 6-8 months. Winter temp typically does not go below 40 and we keep the house around 70, and in the summer temps are typically 110 to 115 at the hottest part, and we keep the house around 80, would you suggest one is better than the other (heat pump vs ac)? Thank you.

I would go with the most efficient AC you can get and also go with a gas furnace. You use the furnace 3 to 4 months out of the year? Really? Here in Phoenix? You must have lived here all your life or most of it! Gas is very efficient and worth the cost if you ask me. One thing if you can convince your Contractor, I'd go with a smaller furnace than your AC because we just don't need the same kind of heat here that we do with AC. A 42,000 BTUH Air Conditioner should do well with a 24,000 to 30,000 BTUH furnace.

The reason for this is I see a lot of worn out heat exchangers because our climate is so mild in winter that heat exchangers never really get hot enough all the way through and short cycling is a common problem! Carbon build-up in the heat exchanger can lead to cracking and deterioration which could cause carbon monoxide leaks in your furnace that could wind up in your home making you sick or killing you!

[sktn77a]

what would the advantage of going with an ac unit that had a 2 stage compressor?

A 2 stage condenser/air handler will provide better comfort (more even temperatures). It also provides better dehumidification, but that's not an issue for you. A 2 stage system won't give you any better efficiency. In fact, it may be a smidge worse because of heat losses in the ducts at the lower speed. But the comfort factor is significant, in my opinion. You will need a two stage air handler if you get a 2 stage condenser. If you decide to get a complete new system, you may be eligible for the tax credit. Without a new air handler/furnace, though, you won't be able to get the manufacturer's/AHRI certificate (manufacturers only test and certify their own complete systems).