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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    1,311
    I'm not trying to trick anyone, especially since i don't know all. But I would like to poll all readers for professional development reasons

    What does it take to make acid?
    Moisture, florine or chlorine gas, and heat. (statement and question)

    So if a system was installed and maintained leak free how would it develop acid in it?
    Because it should lack moisture from proper evacuation techniques right?

    Acid away? If you nuetralize the acid from a system and do not correct the heat souce can it re-activate?

    Leaks can only occur on the low side? I was told it is an old statement from systems with gases that run hg" on low side. So now how do air & non-condensibles enter a system that leaks but has positive pressures on high and low side of system while operating and off-cycle? My understanding is the venturi effect will pull these into system.

    What is a burn-out really? have known some who called all comp. elec. failures burn-outs. i have an idea but want to hear what you guys think

  2. #2

    venturi effect????

    anyway.....

    It's important to differentiate between mild and severe burnouts, since there's a greater quantity of harmful acids present after a severe burnout.

    A rapid burn from a spot failure in the motor windings results in a mild burnout and there will be little or no discoloration of the oil and no carbon deposits.

    Severe burnout occurs when the compressor stays in operation and burns longer, resulting in highly discolored oil, carbon deposits (sludge), and acid formation. The color and odor of the oil are the best indication of how badly the system is contaminated.


    However, if there's acid in the oil, you'll need to do a clean-up of the system.


    Check for Contamination
    In severe burnout situations, the system will be contaminated with sludge and acid. The sludge is a by-product of the burning process. The high temperatures involved with the burn combine with compressor oil to form soot. This soot mixes with the oil and sludge is formed.

    The sludge is then pumped throughout the system during the burn process. Components such as check valves, thermal expansion valves, etc, may be contaminated and must be checked.
    Don't interrupt me while i'm talking to myself

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    South Dakota
    Posts
    6,579

    Go to this link and read this short article. Don't be fooled by the title. Read the entire article it discusses the formation of acids in systems.

    http://www.bacharach-training.com/norm/desiccants.htm

    Norm

  4. #4
    Originally posted by hvac3901
    I'm not trying to trick anyone, especially since i don't know all. But I would like to poll all readers for professional development reasons


    Leaks can only occur on the low side? I was told it is an old statement from systems with gases that run hg" on low side. So now how do air & non-condensibles enter a system that leaks but has positive pressures on high and low side of system while operating and off-cycle? My understanding is the venturi effect will pull these into system.

    Your screen name implies that you are an A/C guy so you should have the answer to this one, you just don't know it yet. Here is a hint. Why does water condense on the kitchen window in the winter time when you cook on the stove that is 15 feet from the window?

    The answer.... The vapor pressure for water is lower at the window where it is cool than at the stove. Water migrates through the air and condenses on the window.

    How does this apply to refrigeration system.

    Well inside the ideal refrigeration system there is no moisture. Vapor pressure of the water is 0. Outside the pipe the vapor pressure of the water is some positive number depending on the humidity. Leak in pipe allows path for water to migrate into system. Also most refrigerants have a solubility factor for water which also adds to the desire for the water vapor to enter the system.

    It is all about solubility and vapor pressures.

  5. #5
    Originally posted by hvac3901
    I'm not trying to trick anyone, especially since i don't know all. But I would like to poll all readers for professional development reasons


    What is a burn-out really? have known some who called all comp. elec. failures burn-outs. i have an idea but want to hear what you guys think
    This one is a little tougher to explain. It has to with the laws of deminishing returns. For every hour that you work there is a dollar amount that you are willing to accept for that hour of work. If you continually take service calls of a long and hot weekend on call there comes a point at which you will refuse to be willing to work anymore hours regardless of what the boss is willing to pay. This is called "burn out".

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    4,879
    Refrigeration burn out. Alot of us have been there, and done that.

    The thing that amazes me is. After some serious time off, we look forward to doing it all again.

    Now thats a bunch of people, who love what they do. I think it's the challenge that drives us.
    A Diamond is just a piece of coal, that made good under pressure!

  7. #7
    yeh that's the truth. My longest week was 92 hours and my longest stetch straight thru was 37 hours. was beat tired then, but I still get a grin now when i think of it. gluttens for abuse


  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    1,311
    normchris thanks that is what i was told if i read it right acid first then burn-out notburn-out then acid, i just could'nt find documents to back it up anymore.

    refer dude i do work a/c, i do know this one but from a different point of view, as far as yours goes i will really think about it. check this out. i did like the smart a?# stuff also that was truely funny. diminishing returns he he he he

    whoever said venturi effect????? check this out look around good. I use to use them for dewatering flooded spaces bilges in the navy, they are no joke they have a pumping capacity you would not believe, i saw big ones about two feet in length and six inch round such a couple hundred gallons in a minute or two, just to demonstate thier ability. so when a copeland compressor design guy said venturi effect naturally i was on board with that train of thought.
    http://www.foxvalve.com/index2.html


  9. #9

    Hmm hey Mister venturi....

    forget venturi effect in a hvac/ref system.

    it doesnt exist.
    Don't interrupt me while i'm talking to myself

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