Please help me validate new Carrier system

[scubasteve20]

Hello all. I have benefited so greatly from this forum and now, in need of a new system, I finally decided to join. I am a VERY experienced DIYer and seriously contemplated redoing my own system but used my better judgement and decided against it.

I've gotten what seem to be reasonable quotes and one spectacular one so now I need to decide. I had several manual J calculations done, all of which lead me to a 2.5 ton system. I am replacing a 23 year old Rheem which is also 2.5 ton and is now too costly to keep running.

My best quotes were for Goodman and Carrier base model 13 SEER R410 heat pump systems of which the prices were almost identical. Either system would get a new pad, condenser, air handler, dig. programmable tstat, cond. drain sensor, haul away, permits, tax. Seemed too good to be true so I grilled the install tech on everything I could think of:

- Lines will be flushed and pressure tested, reused if acceptable
- silver solder, no flux
- ductwork checked before / flow will be checked after install
- extended labor warranty and svc contract are available for reasonable fees
- I will not be in this house more than a few years, tech understood and I feel he guided me towards equipment that fits my situation.
- never TRIED to sell me anything
- Very patient in answering all of my random questions
- Company is small but well established

I feel pretty good about their abilities and equipment but still seems too good to be true, wish I could post prices.

Bottom line: Is there anything else I can ask about equipment and install to help me pull the trigger or not? Baby is on the way so I have to be very price conscious but don't need to deal with worse problems than the current system is giving me.

Sorry for the long post and VERY VERY grateful for any other advice you can offer. Thank you again,

Steve

[scubasteve20]

Oh... Here are the model numbers I am deciding between,

Carrier
25HBB330
FY4ANF030

Oops, don't have goodman models but it's their base R410 13 seer.

I know install is everything but I'm also stuck deciding between these two at virtually the same cost.

[Sammer VII]

I would go with Carrier. Hands down.

Goodman doesn't even ship with a factory installed TXV in their 13 seer units.

[scubasteve20]

Thank you Sammer, that helps. I thought I caught that about the TXV looking at the specs online but wasn't sure.

Here's another kicker... I asked about a 5" filter option and installer said it can't be used on a base model air handle since it would restrict the flow. This makes no sense to me. I'm pretty sure a larger filter INCREASES the flow. One of us must be retarded (hope it's not me). This is the only thing that seemed to contradict the feeling that he knew what he was doing. Please correct me if I am wrong.

If I want it should I insist? And if he will not comply, then I walk away? Should I even spring for the extra cash for the larger filter? It is also a very reasonable price IMO.

Thank you all again,

Steve

[AZWldctFan]

I'm just a home owner but I have been getting a lot of quotes lately as well and some of the extras that I've noticed people include are:

* Convert Air Return Stamp Grills to Bar Grills to increase air flow
* Replacing the plenums (i've been told these can get pretty damaged when installing a new system if they mess with the ducts)
* If you are planning on moving in a few years, ask if the warranty is transferrable...

[Airmechanical]

Goodman doesn't even ship with a factory installed TXV in their 13 seer units.

there are benefits and pitfalls to everything

a system with a simple metering device will have less parts to break than a system with a TXV



.

[beenthere]

I would go with Carrier. Hands down.

Goodman doesn't even ship with a factory installed TXV in their 13 seer units.

It is sort of strange that Other brands can't reach 13 SEER without a TXV.

What does Goodman know that others don't.

[scubasteve20]

Thank you all for your input so far. My prospective install date is the 15th so I have until then to decide. He has both units in stock.

Plenum work and all that is not a big deal to me if needed. I will be there to watch the whole install and make sure things like that get done.

I'm told the warranty on the Carrier is transferrable, not so on the Goodman.

[DjPolar]

"Here's another kicker... I asked about a 5" filter option and installer said it can't be used on a base model air handle since it would restrict the flow. This makes no sense to me. I'm pretty sure a larger filter INCREASES the flow."

The tech is right about the filter, if you put in a 5" filter there is a significant drop across the filter and potentially freeze up your coil. if your gonna go with a filter that size, why not go with an EAC? The housing is pretty much the same but with the EAC, there is very little air drop across the pre-filters, cells and post-filters. And they catch pretty much everything, you just have to make sure that you clean them really good or they just start to get over loaded and not work properly. Ie., if your a smoker, clean them once a month, but make sure you get some EAC cleaner.

Now if you do not wanna EAC, get at least a 2" filter (has less material, and causes less restriction), but as i tell all customers in there own personal homes, check it at least every 2 months and replace regardless after 4-5 months.

Also during the warmer moths when cooling is required, i would put in the fiber glass filters, yes they allow more stuff to pass through, the GTA'S (glass throw away's) will catch the larger stuff (dust bunnies), but you will be helping the efficiency of the A/C system.

Now i'm sure there will be some techs on here that are gonna chime in and have there say, but those have been my experiences, and have not had any call backs on filters or related problems, as i said just my two cents!

[Sammer VII]

It is sort of strange that Other brands can't reach 13 SEER without a TXV.

What does Goodman know that others don't.

You tell me...

[jpb2]

Go with the Goodman. Carrier is over rated.

[beenthere]

You tell me...

I don't know either.
But the only reason other brands use TXV's on their 13 SEER systems. Is because they can't get 13 SEER without it.

[pstu]

Thank you Sammer, that helps. I thought I caught that about the TXV looking at the specs online but wasn't sure.

Here's another kicker... I asked about a 5" filter option and installer said it can't be used on a base model air handle since it would restrict the flow. This makes no sense to me. I'm pretty sure a larger filter INCREASES the flow. One of us must be retarded (hope it's not me). This is the only thing that seemed to contradict the feeling that he knew what he was doing. Please correct me if I am wrong.

If I want it should I insist? And if he will not comply, then I walk away? Should I even spring for the extra cash for the larger filter? It is also a very reasonable price IMO.

Thank you all again,

Steve

I am a homeowner and like it when what I read makes sense. I am disturbed by something that does not make sense so far. Your tech says the air handler "can't handle" the restriction of a 5-inch filter? What does he know that we don't know? Are you on the cusp of too much resistance to airflow already? Does he imagine that a 5-inch filter with a whole lot of surface area, will present *more* restriction than your probable 1-inch alternatives?

Looking at the specs for the Aprilaire 2200 and 2400, the resistance is rated under 0.1 inch water column at the airflow appropriate to your 2-1/2 ton AC. Not to single out Aprilaire, I know other brands usually are competitive. Is that what you call too much resistance?

I would personally give preference to a tech who measures things vs. gives blunt rule of thumb answers.

Regards -- Pstu

[Sammer VII]

I don't know either.
But the only reason other brands use TXV's on their 13 SEER systems. Is because they can't get 13 SEER without it.

But is Goodman actually achieving 13 Seer?

[beenthere]

Your tech says the air handler "can't handle" the restriction of a 5-inch filter? What does he know that we don't know?

Probably thinks you need a VS blower to use a 4 or 5" media filter.

[beenthere]

But is Goodman actually achieving 13 Seer?

As much as Carrier is.

AHRI Regs are the same for OEM manufacturers. Must be within 5% of listed SEER rating.

Goodman could be within 2% and Carrier only be within 4%.

[scubasteve20]

Thanks for the good info so far.

I feel comfortable buying either system but still having a hard time deciding. If the Carrier was much more, it would be a no brainer for me. At virtually the same price as Goodman, I still don't know what the deciding factors would be. I'm not too worried about the 5" filter anymore as I probably won't get it to keep costs down. I'm also not really worried about reliability past about 3-4 years, 5 max.

I still would like to find out any other questions to ask the installer to make certain he is competent with the install. This is what is most important to me.

Thank you again for all of your help and comments.

Steve

[smittyii]

Thanks for the good info so far.

I feel comfortable buying either system but still having a hard time deciding. If the Carrier was much more, it would be a no brainer for me. At virtually the same price as Goodman, I still don't know what the deciding factors would be. I'm not too worried about the 5" filter anymore as I probably won't get it to keep costs down. I'm also not really worried about reliability past about 3-4 years, 5 max.

I still would like to find out any other questions to ask the installer to make certain he is competent with the install. This is what is most important to me.

Thank you again for all of your help and comments.

Steve

habla ingles???

[pstu]

I've seen some Spanish speaking installers who showed good craftsmanship.

[sideburns05]

ask the contractor to monitor total external static press of the system most psc motors in basic systems are good up to .5" wc if your under that then high efficiency filtration will work and be beneficial