Professional Member
I go into the store and the manager nails me for questions about his soft ice cream.
I have zero history on his FF lineup for ice cream. Even though the log is filled in in the motor room, it does not tell the whole story.
I just know summer is about to break lose and we have soft ice cream in this one store.
So I went thru each door and measured the discharge air temps ever so often.
On this line, I was getting between minus 19F to ZeroF. All on the same circuit. It just went progressively.
Shouldnt they all measure the same?
And .. since we are talking ice cream here, dont we need something like a product temp of minus twelve or minus fifteen?
So a minus nineteen is really nothing then ... is it? It is just not towing the load then .... hmmmmmm ....
Professional Member
Uneven temps in a circuit is usually the txv screens.
Is there a refrigeration schedule in the motor room? That has the all the info you can want.
Required temps vary chain to chain. For us, Safeway's want -12, while Kroger owned stores want -5 for RIIC and 0 for RIFF.
Professional Member
AAAAAAhhhhh sooooooooooo ..... yes ... the printed schedule up on the wall.... yes...
However, for the most part ... those things are no longer readable. They are way gone faded out.
TX screens, yes I can check those. Thanks.
Professional Member
Did you just call me an a$$hole in Chinese?Originally posted by R12rules
AAAAAAhhhhh sooooooooooo
Professional Member
You're assuming that the liquid lines are all piped correctly in the cases.Originally posted by jerrycoolsaz
Uneven temps in a circuit is usually the txv screens.
Is there a refrigeration schedule in the motor room? That has the all the info you can want.
Required temps vary chain to chain. For us, Safeway's want -12, while Kroger owned stores want -5 for RIIC and 0 for RIFF.
Stop that.
Professional Member
If you have a # of glass doors on the same system, and they are running progressively warmer down the line, then # 1 to look at is receiver level and piping if both are good then look at tx screens.Easier to look for the obvious before goin to pumpdown mode.
Every rack has a system that will be the first to alarm or warm up on low liquid, figure out which one and why. Sometimes a good look at piping can correct as Dave mentioned. Without a low liquid alarm, your first indication of a leak is usually a high temp. alarm on the same system first.
GO Flames Go
Watts New, Ohm My, I been Electrically Commutated. Are U2.
Professional Member
Most markets I know of shoot for -25 evap for ice cream.
A Diamond is just a piece of coal, that made good under pressure!
Professional Member
Generally referred to as an Oh Shit condition.Originally posted by mccool
Without a low liquid alarm, your first indication of a leak is usually a high temp. alarm on the same system first.
SDC/Educational/Membership Committee*
You should be able to get this stuff from store engineering. Somebody has copies of the original refrigeration schedules and system plan drawings sitting in a file somewhere.Originally posted by R12rules
AAAAAAhhhhh sooooooooooo ..... yes ... the printed schedule up on the wall.... yes...
However, for the most part ... those things are no longer readable. They are way gone faded out......
The chain I worked for had poor communications between the Construction/Engineering and Store Maintenance departments.......I was in Engineering and went out to survey a store for a proposed expansion where I ran into one of the refrigeration techs from Store Maintenance. When he saw the original piping plans and original Hussmann schedules I had brought with me he nearly threw a fit.
It was the same as you describe, the original plan on the wall was totally faded out and the schedules that were to kept with the racks were long gone missing.
Professional Member
I run ice cream doors at -13, ice cream wide island at -25 ( with a sattelite). I float the suction from the ice cream doors, float the sattelite suction from ice cream w/island
Professional Member
I see "Oh Shit" conditions often.
I was just recharging the A/C for this one store today when I noticed the liquid level in one system, unrelated to A/C was seriously low on gas.
I had authorization to do whatever I needed in order to bring up the A/C. But not any other system.
And I knew this low receiver would be giving us a call some late night ... so I stelthly dumped a bunch of freon in there ... whilest adding gas to the A/C system.
That gas is going on the charge for the A/C.
Gotta be sneaky sometimes. Corperate dont know what's best for their own good.
On these stores, on the MT meat racks, the deli cooler box is usually the first to show signs of low charge.
So whenever I get a call for a store with a deli cooler down, I just drag in two shopping carts loaded down with refrigerant. 200 pounds of R-22 to the rescue.....
Regular Guest
Might want to check for leaks after putting in 200#, or is the store to cheap to pay for a leak check. It sure would save them money in the long run.
Regular Guest
If you have your EPA card you know that the leak must be found and fixed. Don't give the store the option not to.........Originally posted by oly
Might want to check for leaks after putting in 200#, or is the store to cheap to pay for a leak check. It sure would save them money in the long run.
It could be your ass in the sling
Professional Member
I can't believe someone would buy that quantity of refrigerant and not ask where it had gone.Originally posted by refer dude 2479
If you have your EPA card you know that the leak must be found and fixed. Don't give the store the option not to.........Originally posted by oly
Might want to check for leaks after putting in 200#, or is the store to cheap to pay for a leak check. It sure would save them money in the long run.
It could be your ass in the sling
I never, ever "ask" to leak test. And I leak test a LOT.
You're reading the ramblings of a guy who burns up more leak detector sensors than most large companies...
What's a couple hundred in labor to leak check compared to tens of thousands in potential loss?????
Professional Member
Yes I do leak check.
This customer has a form we must fill out whenever we dump in freon. (or a blend ... for that matter).
I work hard at finding whatever I can for leaks. I dont like the idea of dump and run.
I also dont like surprises. And in the past, I have been surprised by a leak or two which came back to haunt me.
(that was cute ... "if I have my EPA card")
Professional Member
R12Rules,
Try to shoot for -8 to -12 on glass door sets. A couple of other ideas, if there is one controlling case, make sure it's txv is leaner, so it pulls down last. Normally the stubs should be piped middle of the line-up. Does this lineup get prgressively warm the farther away from the stubs? If so I agree check the liquid level. Also check defrost, sometimes the lineup is broken into multi circuits, you might ahve an issue there.
Regular Guest
Dave, ever not find a leak! one of those that might be in the overhead, or underground. Is this not a potential for increased labor? just curious.
Professional Member
I'm not Dave, but I'll answer anyways. Those are more difficult to pinpoint but it can be done. Run your leak detector (H-10 in my case) at the start and end runs of that circuit. If your lines are insulated well like they should be, the gas will travel until it can escape. If it's the liquid line, look for oily areas above or stains on the floor or ceiling tiles.Originally posted by oly
Dave, ever not find a leak! one of those that might be in the overhead, or underground. Is this not a potential for increased labor? just curious.
If you're still in doubt about underground linesets, cut and pressurize the s.o.b.
Professional Member
I have found leaks in overhead piping to be very rare. Most are cause by poor installation practices. The occasional rub-out from a un-saddled pipe on a hanger.
The underground however is another story. It is more like swiss cheese than refrigeration piping. I do not believe I have ever seen a good underground system (although I have an idea for a method, I believe could be successful).
Most leaks I have seen, have been at rack, or the case/box.
But as I have said before, I have not seen it all either.
A Diamond is just a piece of coal, that made good under pressure!
Regular Guest
just reading the threads..
whats your idea?
dan
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