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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    East Stroudsburg, PA
    Posts
    13,215
    Originally posted by NedFlanders

    The Copeland class teacher said to just toss the parts back inside....literally.
    I was campaigning to make broken parts tossing an Olympic sport...

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    ALABAMA
    Posts
    230
    I've been dealing with rack units for years is lg grocery stores and have found out a couple of things with the r22 med temp racks. I understand that you just took over the racks. I have rack units with copelands that have been running over 10 years with no compressor losses.(knock on wood) The number one thing that we do on all r22 racks is to change out the contactors twice a years even if the contactor looks ok. These units run very hard. This has worked very well for us. Do your racks have oil reservoirs on the rack and oil regulators on the compressors?

    Things just happen sometimes and you just have a bad day.



  3. #16
    Originally posted by cphc
    I've been dealing with rack units for years is lg grocery stores and have found out a couple of things with the r22 med temp racks. I understand that you just took over the racks. I have rack units with copelands that have been running over 10 years with no compressor losses.(knock on wood) The number one thing that we do on all r22 racks is to change out the contactors twice a years even if the contactor looks ok. These units run very hard. This has worked very well for us. Do your racks have oil reservoirs on the rack and oil regulators on the compressors?

    Things just happen sometimes and you just have a bad day.


    I think the contactor change idea is a great one but I don't make the connection between that and saving compressors. The only thing that this will avoid is a contactor failure and possible single phaseing of the motor. How does the contactor know what the refrigerant is in the system. Don't see that connection. I do beleive in contactor replacement as a regular maintenance item don't get me wrong. I just think you are cutting yourself short if you think this is the only reason you don't have compressor failures. Maybe you are staying on top of all of the other problems too.

  4. #17
    Originally posted by cphc
    I've been dealing with rack units for years is lg grocery stores and have found out a couple of things with the r22 med temp racks. I understand that you just took over the racks. I have rack units with copelands that have been running over 10 years with no compressor losses.(knock on wood) The number one thing that we do on all r22 racks is to change out the contactors twice a years even if the contactor looks ok. These units run very hard. This has worked very well for us. Do your racks have oil reservoirs on the rack and oil regulators on the compressors?

    Things just happen sometimes and you just have a bad day.


    Yes, oil resevwoirs and regs @ the units.

    If you read, "I shoulda kept my big mouth shut" ... you'll note I began my regimine of replaceing oil filters on the racks.
    I am interested in going heavy after this.

    We do replace a lot of contactors.


    The main parts I use are;
    R-22, couple hundred pounds at a time, usually.
    Contactors, 60A, 115Volt. Some 230 volt too.
    Belts
    9 Watt, CW, 115 fan motors
    A few pressure controls
    Hot Water ... we use a lota hot water.
    Driers.

    Oh ...and batteries for my collection of flashlights.


    And the occasional compressor.

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Orange County CA
    Posts
    1,084
    115 volt coils on the contactors?...Hussmann Superplus?

    Daves favorite company..hehehehe

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    ALABAMA
    Posts
    230
    We replace contactors on the units mainly to the proper voltage. The r22 rack comprssors will almost always run at FLA and it helps to have that good conection on the contactors. Like I said this is only what I do and it seems to work ok an we do other pm's on the units also.

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Guayaquil EC
    Posts
    10,356
    If you use horsepower-rated contactors instead of the "el cheapo" definite purpose amp-rated POS contactors on market racks you will be saving a lot of changing of contactors and probably a few pumps as well. They're not cheap but they last near forever and the components are replaceable.........a good investment in my book.

    If you want the best, go for Allen-Bradley.......accept nothing else.

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    4,879
    I thought I had heard a while back. Copeland was going to stop honoring warranties, if you did not use their contactors.

    Any one else hear that, or was it just a vicious rumor.

    Ice, it's tough enough to get some of these people to pay for a contactor. Never mind a good one.

    But your right, a good one, last's almost forever.
    A Diamond is just a piece of coal, that made good under pressure!

  9. #22
    Originally posted by icemeister
    If you use horsepower-rated contactors instead of the "el cheapo" definite purpose amp-rated POS contactors on market racks you will be saving a lot of changing of contactors and probably a few pumps as well. They're not cheap but they last near forever and the components are replaceable.........a good investment in my book.

    If you want the best, go for Allen-Bradley.......accept nothing else.

    Okay ... I'll go out and buy a few tomorrow. What are the series you recomend?
    I assume that some AB are mo better suited to my needs than others.


    And Thanks for the tip. If I get chewed over this ... I wont be able to continue taking your advice ever again though ... jus so your "warned" ....

  10. #23
    Originally posted by frozensolid
    I thought I had heard a while back. Copeland was going to stop honoring warranties, if you did not use their contactors.
    Just on the 4D and 6D. I don't know about the "their contactor" part, but we always put a contactor on the ticket for that job.



    And A-B starters are good, but pricey. A contact kit for them is $100, and a 60 amp Furnas is $30. Your boss will do the math: is this contract work or T&M?

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Guayaquil EC
    Posts
    10,356
    I haven't picked up on any such Copeland requirement. It may be just gossip started when Copeland introduced their own line of Name-Branded controls and such. Emerson may know more about this than anyone here.

    Yes it's true that AB stuff is a bit pricey, but it's worth it in the long run. All I can say is that if the existing contactors are HP rated, you should get the necessary parts to fix it.........NEVER replace it with a cheap DP contactor.

    If the systems your working on came with DP contactors and are causing problems, then there's the opportunity to sell the customer on the upgrade to what he should have specified in the first place. Many chains go for the low first buck and pay for it later on. If they don't spec something, the salesman will quote whatever is less money to get the order.

    I've got some old Hill outdoor singles out there with AB contactors that are still going strong after over thirty years service.

    R12, I'll have to look up the recommended sizing and AB numbers for you if I ever get time to sit down at the shop.

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    1,311
    condenseddave
    ** Site Supporter **

    Registered: Sep 2001
    Posts: 7723
    How do you "see" floodback?????



    it would be like a virtual point in a DDC system. you cannot physically touch it but you can infer it from two or more real points and compute it.

    oh wait you were joking right?


  13. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    1,311
    copeland sent out an industry advisement that it would not honor single phase'd compressors because it is an electrical contact failure and not one of refrigeration/mechanical failure. So change the contactors with the compressors for reliability and keep the maintanence up to course par. this is real had a fellow tech change a comp for ac and was declined warranty on subsiquent failure due to single phasing.

    copeland also mandates 20-40 degree sh at compressor suction and does not have to warranty comp with washed bearring surfaces and the like. double check that sh range i'm rusty but the matter is still factual.

    [Edited by hvac3901 on 05-27-2004 at 10:28 PM]

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