r-414

[freonjohn]

Anyone have experience with this refrigerant? Will i have to change expansion valve when converting from r-12? This is a low temp. box that someone else has put 414 in and she won't pull down below 15deg. Seems like there is no way to use sight glass. When bubbles clear it is overcharged.Is there a better choice for refirgerants to convert from r-12?

[ckr74]

Could be that you may have other problems. I use 414 in all the old R-12 systems. No problems yet.Some of them been going 4 years now. Give us more info.

[freonjohn]

i haven't gotten into the system yet. it is a new customer that has had someone else working on it. they replaced a suction drier because it had been left on there so long it rusted out. the condensing unit is outside and i had between 25 and 30lb. suction, 180lb. head. When i cleared the sight glass it flooded back. the last guy attached the liquid line to the suction line as a heat exchanger. the pressures seem highe than r-12 so i was wondering if the expansion valve was compatible. the unit is dirty, has leaks, and very poor brazing. my question is should i keep the same txv while i repair the other problems? I have seen a lot of people use mp39 that caused a lot of the old r-12 systems to lose compressors because of excesive head pressure. is the 414 the best replacement for the 12?

[dorrmann]

I use Hot Shot all the time as a 12 replacement. You don't have to change the TXV. You got a good handle on it...don't clear the sightglass, etc.

Just make sure you charge with the bottle upright. It's different than the rest of the blends. I've caught myself doing that a couple times. My mind says "turn it upside down," but then I realize that isn't correct.

[dadaddy]

I feel like I am beating a Dead Horse - I keep telling you guys MAXIFRIG does much better - Much colder, they say its something to do w/ the head pressure - With our coolers my amateur nephew puts it my low temp units and in 3 years everything perfect w/ no comp failures - NEGITIVES = It is only available direct from them and they are difficult to get along with = BUT, Hey no price increases so far and it works terrific so we get 22 & 502 also - Good Luck Guys ............

[270wsm]

I use Hot Shot all the time as a 12 replacement. You don't have to change the TXV. You got a good handle on it...don't clear the sightglass, etc.

Just make sure you charge with the bottle upright. It's different than the rest of the blends. I've caught myself doing that a couple times. My mind says "turn it upside down," but then I realize that isn't correct.

All the jugs of hotshot I have bought have to be turned upside down. Better to read the jug than do it wrong.

[Special-K]

This is a low temp. box that someone else has put 414 in and she won't pull down below 15deg.

That's typical for a low temp system with 414b. Hot Snot will do a decent job for medium temp but is terrible for low temp. The ONLY good alternative for a low temp R-12 system is MP-66.

And forget about the "don't fill the site glass crap", it the site glass isn't full you're not getting a full column of liquid to the TXV....period! Anyone that tells you any different either dunno what they're talking about or they work for ICOR.

[rayr]

Agreed with K-fridge. There is NOT an expansiion valve on the market yet that works well not having a full column of liquid to it. PERIOD!!!!

[Special-K]

But you can probably use the same TXV if it was the correct one to begin with. After you fill the site glass (subtle hint) and get the box close to temp, check the SH and adjust as needed. It's fairly common when switching to blends that the TXV will need closed a bit.

You should be running at least 1/2 AB oil in the compressor with MP-66 unless it's a close coupled system.

[markettech]

And forget about the "don't fill the site glass crap", it the site glass isn't full you're not getting a full column of liquid to the TXV....period! Anyone that tells you any different either dunno what they're talking about or they work for ICOR.

This just keeps coming up - donit

A guy should make a YES THE LL SIGHT GLASS NEEDS TO BE CLEAR sticky thread

[Biblepoet]

This just keeps coming up - donit

A guy should make a YES THE LL SIGHT GLASS NEEDS TO BE CLEAR sticky thread

Ya tryin' to put the rest of us out of a job when the others muck up?

B-

[markettech]

Ya tryin' to put the rest of us out of a job when the others muck up?

B-

[Special-K]

This just keeps coming up - donit

A guy should make a YES THE LL SIGHT GLASS NEEDS TO BE CLEAR sticky thread

It absolutely amazes me that so many people believe this junk. And people wonder why I have issue with a certain refrigerant manufacturer.

[skunky]

I have not had any problem with 414 On some of the older systems you cant clear the sight glass I just charge the system by amp draw on the Compressor but make sure the box is warm when you start and charge until you get TO RLA rating on compressor then watch the temp

[crackertech]

Just dump some HP-80 in it clear sight glass and be done with it no txv
change either.

[crackertech]

And on more thing K, MT,POWEL ICE,LUCKSTER can anyone show me where
one manufacturer recomends hot sh** for anything.

[tazzman1945]

MP66 is for low temp swap Mp39 is a med temp swap. HP 81 is for ice machines for R12 swap. Copeland will not warrant any compressor if they find out 414 has been used in it. Has anyone used the 416 yet? I have a friend that his boss swears by it for med and high temp 12 systems. I am the service manager for a mechanical co. that does only resturant work. My guys have a basic supply of refrigerants on thier trucks MP39, R22, 404A,134A, and 408A for the 502 systems, we do have the other mixes at the shop for those units that have been worked on prior to us being there. The refrigerant market is getting so complicated that you need a chemistry degree to work on these units. Then you have Joe Blow resturant owner that got a good deal on a German made unit with 507 in it. Makes a person wonder why do I hate myself so much.

[powell]

First let’s verify the application of the refrigerants we're discussing.

R-12 Replacements
R401A -- MP39: -10 or higher SST
R401B -- MP66: +25 and lower SST
R414B -- Hot Shot

R-502 Replacements
R408A
R402A -- HP80
R402B -- HP81 Similar components to R-402A but contains more R-22 and less R-125. This lowers the discharge pressure closer to R-502, however the discharge temperature increases compared to R-502. This is a benefit in ice machines, where the blend is primarily used, because it improves harvest times.

Copeland does not list R414B -- Hot Shot as an approved refrigerant. Follow this link for approved refrigerants. View section 26, 93-11R14 bulletin.

http://www.hvacrinfo.com/ae_index.htm

Also, here is the statement made by Copeland concerning its chart:

"Copeland Engineering has recently updated its Accepted Refrigerant/Lubricants chart. The refrigerants and lubricants on this chart have been tested and approved by Copeland Engineering. Using refrigerants and lubricants not tested and approved by Copeland may result in voiding the warranty".

I'm not condemning Hot Shot, it works fine in some applications.

P.S. Fill the sight glass.

Powell

[rocket]

MAXIFRIG is a Hyrocarbon, it is dangerous and not approved by anyone and hydrocarbons are illegal per EPA
best LT R12 replacement is MP-66

[crackertech]

Thank's powell.