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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
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    Eastern PA
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    68,923

    Forced health care issues;

    I realize that this list may be biased because it comes from the Republican National Committee, but before we dismiss it, let's at least see if it is accurate;

    • Causes 9 million people to lose the insurance they now have;
    • Increases the already bloated deficit by $260 billion over the next decade when all the components are included;
    • Adds $371 billion to the deficit by not including the Medicare physician fee schedule change, also known as the "Doc Fix" provision;
    • Raises taxes by $569 billion on small businesses and creates a new marriage penalty with new income and investment taxes;
    • Cuts Medicare by $523 billion;
    • Increases premiums by 10% for people without employer-based insurance;
    • Expands the power of the IRS to enforce a government mandate that requires Americans to purchase government-approved insurance; and
    • After all the spending is done and the bill is fully implemented, 23 million people will still be uninsured in 2019.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    4,669
    can someone please seriously answer a couple questions?

    1) do the illegal immigrants still get to use our health care even though they are not required to pay, in other words nothing changed?

    2) how does this keep someone with a "catastrophic" illness from still filing bankruptcy?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,923
    Quote Originally Posted by pacnw View Post
    can someone please seriously answer a couple questions?

    1) do the illegal immigrants still get to use our health care even though they are not required to pay, in other words nothing changed?

    2) how does this keep someone with a "catastrophic" illness from still filing bankruptcy?
    Does anyone really even know what was left in and what was taken out of this bill that most Americans expressly did not want?

    Last I heard was that for catastrophic illnesses or damages, it will be determined whether we are worthy of being cured/fixed up or not. I would like to apply for that job of deciding who gets treatment and who is not worthy.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    7,744
    I just took the last 10 minutes or so and studied the entire bill, I think. This should be the one that passed:

    http://docs.house.gov/rules/health/111_ahcaa.pdf

    This is 1990 pages long and I'm pretty sure it's the one that passed but there seems to be no way to tell.

    I'll summerize it for you:

    1) You are screwed and going to get screwed again and again.
    2) We are transfering your money to us.
    3) When we transfer your money to us we are going to do with it what we please.
    4) Old people over 26 will receive less medical treatment because they are near death.
    5) A board of highly qualified government employess will determine what is going to happen to you. We are advertising for those employees now. No experience is necessary in pretty much anything should you desire to apply - like now.
    6) Doctors will be exempt from this program because they will be shot by our Brown Shirts if they don't join this program hence they will not be around to participate.
    7) A fee will be charged to any citizen not enrolled. The fee will be based on how much, if any, money they have left...or basically, it will be all the money they have left.
    8) Medical procedures will be done by a state by state basis only. Health issues such as headaches will be treated in New Jersey. Heart problems will be treated in New Mexico. Foot problems will be treated in Alaska. Waiting lines should be no more then 2 to 3 months.
    9) All people will be treated equally without judgement, even the honkies that have keep this nation in problems since the beginning of time.
    10) Dealth will not be allowed without written permission of the death Czar. Remember his vacation will be between June 1st to Sept 15th of every year so schedule around that.

    Hope this helps.

    I need to get a life.
    "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers it can bribe the public with the public's own money.
    - Alexis de Toqueville, 1835

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,923
    Quote Originally Posted by DeltaT View Post
    I just took the last 10 minutes or so and studied the entire bill, I think. This should be the one that passed:

    http://docs.house.gov/rules/health/111_ahcaa.pdf

    This is 1990 pages long and I'm pretty sure it's the one that passed but there seems to be no way to tell.

    I'll summerize it for you:

    1) You are screwed and going to get screwed again and again.
    2) We are transfering your money to us.
    3) When we transfer your money to us we are going to do with it what we please.
    4) Old people over 26 will receive less medical treatment because they are near death.
    5) A board of highly qualified government employess will determine what is going to happen to you. We are advertising for those employees now. No experience is necessary in pretty much anything should you desire to apply - like now.
    6) Doctors will be exempt from this program because they will be shot by our Brown Shirts if they don't join this program hence they will not be around to participate.
    7) A fee will be charged to any citizen not enrolled. The fee will be based on how much, if any, money they have left...or basically, it will be all the money they have left.
    8) Medical procedures will be done by a state by state basis only. Health issues such as headaches will be treated in New Jersey. Heart problems will be treated in New Mexico. Foot problems will be treated in Alaska. Waiting lines should be no more then 2 to 3 months.
    9) All people will be treated equally without judgement, even the honkies that have keep this nation in problems since the beginning of time.
    10) Dealth will not be allowed without written permission of the death Czar. Remember his vacation will be between June 1st to Sept 15th of every year so schedule around that.

    Hope this helps.

    I need to get a life.
    Delta, you need to move your family out of Washington as soon as possible. You are in a hive of leftists and are no longer safe. My sources tell me that Obama is pushing through a bill that will declare that since he has rendered Republicans and conservatives in general unable to do anything that Republicans and pretty much anyone to the right of radical leftist are now considered vegetables. Being vegetables, it will soon be legal for the leftists in liberal hives such as Washington state, to eat you. Run! Don't look back. Stay away from hollandaise sauce.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    7,744
    RoBo
    You have no idea! Be glad you don't live in Seattle. Funny thing is the rest of the state is as normal as can be and are hard, responsible workers.

    The thing that is really getting to me and more apparent as the weeks go by is how many businesses are folding up and dissapearing as our government spends all our resources on health care and whatever his all mighty desides to screw with.

    One of my buddies is on a family trip so I watch over his business while he's gone. We have been doing this for years. Typically get a ton of calls while he is gone. So far I got on water leak and one customer question about installing lighting fixtures on a HVAC unit he has propose to installed when he get back.

    Waitress friend grew up with a fairly large local service company. She told me he, the owner, is down from his 20 plus people to just himself. Another waitress friend told me her husbands firm is down from about 12 to just 3. Talked to a lead tech the other day who works for a really cool firm..very good reputation. He said all the install crews have been laid off, service work is slow and he does not know how this company is going to make it through the summer.

    We are dieing on the streets and the emperior is playing in his (our) castle.
    "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers it can bribe the public with the public's own money.
    - Alexis de Toqueville, 1835

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    NW Arkansas
    Posts
    1,288
    Quote Originally Posted by pacnw View Post
    can someone please seriously answer a couple questions?

    1) do the illegal immigrants still get to use our health care even though they are not required to pay, in other words nothing changed?

    2) how does this keep someone with a "catastrophic" illness from still filing bankruptcy?
    #1. Because Nixon made it mandatory for hospital emergency rooms to turn away anyone in need of medical attention. Illegal immigrants can go to any ER and receive medical care, it is the law.

    #2. Short answer, it doesn't, until adult preexisting conditions drop of in 2014. In 2014 it still will be pointless because insurance companies are not regulated at a Federal level, They are a legal monopoly who can discuss pricing amongst the various health insurance providers, therefore they can charge anything they want. Sure mister X we will cover you even though you have had cancer that is in remission now. You're premium will only be $25,000 a month <big grin>.

    I have watched and read many Conservative negative comments on this crappy health care bill. Fascism, socialism, communism are but a few of the comments. In reality the bill was mostly composed of Conservative ideas from Nixon to the current crop of Republican lawmakers. Most people here think it is a far left Liberal fascist plot. A lot of informed Republicans, Independents, and Democrats oppose this bill because it does not go far enough. That is reflected in the negative polling. When actually asked why they oppose this bill the simple answer is that it does not do enough to help people.

    Everybody loves their insurance company until they have to use it. Two years ago I decided to get an umbilical hernia repaired. Through loop holes, deductibles, an out of network one day surgery center my insurance company paid (drum roll please) ZERRRRRRRROOOOOO DOOOOLLLLLAAAARRRRS! They did send me a bill over a year later to reimburse them for $95 dollars they accidentally never paid out in the first place. Good thing my wife is a thieving, snake in the grass, ambulance chasing, scumbag, lying, cheating, shifty, amoral lawyer who does about $60,000 a year in Pro Bono (free) legal work for the poor. It only took five or six lawyer letters to get the issue resolved. If I had to pay a lawyer it would have been easier to pay the $95 for the good screwing United Healthcare gave me. I hope "dollar" Bill Helmsly is enjoying his close to a Billion in salary and stock options over five years. I hope he is spending it wisely. I would hate to think that he would have to downgrade from a G5 to a Lear 23. That would make me sad.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    NW Arkansas
    Posts
    1,288
    Make that, not turn anyone away.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    4,669
    Quote Originally Posted by wgrr View Post
    #1. Because Nixon made it mandatory for hospital emergency rooms to turn away anyone in need of medical attention. Illegal immigrants can go to any ER and receive medical care, it is the law.
    so the statements that this would not happen or the lack of acknowledging it were B.S., we still pick up their costs!

    #2. Short answer, it doesn't, until adult preexisting conditions drop of in 2014. In 2014 it still will be pointless because insurance companies are not regulated at a Federal level, They are a legal monopoly who can discuss pricing amongst the various health insurance providers, therefore they can charge anything they want. Sure mister X we will cover you even though you have had cancer that is in remission now. You're premium will only be $25,000 a month <big grin>.
    so are you saying that if you are insured, the COMPLETE cost of the treatment would be covered? if not, then how is the new different than the old, as was stated many times?
    .

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    SC
    Posts
    20,677
    No reserve. No retreat. No regrets.

    For those who have fought for it, freedom has a sweetness the protected will never know.

    http://www.airwarvietnam.com/16thSOSGunners2.jpg

    Proud member of KA Club

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    466
    Quote Originally Posted by bootlen View Post
    This will surely cause Americans who do not want to comply to add dependants to their tax deductions so that they will not have as much tax taken from their paychecks and will not be due a refund.

    If the government's idea here is to keep the flow of tax money into the system steady, they will be shooting themselves in the proverbial foot by causing more taxpayers to decrease the amount of taxes going into the fund from payroll taxes.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    7,744
    I'm still predicting that obama and his crew will change the tax code so that net worth and not yearly income is considered for a tax base.

    What better way to share the wealth then to tax the people who have accumulated wealth during their working years through smart investing and investments and give to those that have not than by taxing by listing assests including individual home ownership.

    And that any change to deductions will be removed or penalized in such a way to keep more money flowing to the govt and that includes states.
    "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers it can bribe the public with the public's own money.
    - Alexis de Toqueville, 1835

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Virginia, near the coast
    Posts
    1,174
    Quote Originally Posted by everythingair View Post
    This will surely cause Americans who do not want to comply to add dependants to their tax deductions so that they will not have as much tax taken from their paychecks and will not be due a refund.

    If the government's idea here is to keep the flow of tax money into the system steady, they will be shooting themselves in the proverbial foot by causing more taxpayers to decrease the amount of taxes going into the fund from payroll taxes.
    Lower overall taxes = more money to the government.
    Higher overall taxes = less money to the government.

    It's a simple fact that liberals vehemently refuse to acknowledge.
    It's a mechanical device, designed by humans, built by humans and operated by humans. What could possibly go wrong?

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