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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    21

    R-22 TWO STAGE RACK SYSTEM

    HAS ANY BODY EXPERIENCED ON 2 STAGE REFRIGERATION SYSTEMS.
    IT DOES NOT MATTER WHO THE RACK MANUFACTURE IS.
    CARLYLE O6E ON THE LOW STAGE SYSTEMS SEEMS TO BREAK VALVES.

    WITH PRETTY CONSTANT LOAD AND ALL LIQIUD AND OIL LEVELS MAINTAINED, SUPERHEAT AND DISCHARGE PRESSURES AND TEMPS ARE WITH IN RANGE,( DISC PRES@ 75#)NEVER CARED FOR THAT BUT I AM THINKING OF INSTALLING A FLOCON DISCHARGE PRES REGULATOR TO MAINTAIN PRESSURE( 120 PSI) ON THE DISCHARGE SIDE OF THAT O6E ON.
    NOTE:ON THIS BENCH THERE'S A O6D AND A O6E.
    ONLY THE O6E COMP BREAKS VALVES.

    ANY IDEAS.

    [Edited by GM-1978 on 05-15-2004 at 01:39 PM]

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    lorain county,Ohio
    Posts
    215
    had same problem on two stage racks ,put in discharge regulator ,per hill/phoenix ,give them a call and explain
    your problem .they may have the answer your looking for.

    i believe that it is a build up of oil in the cylinder
    due to a flow issue,then you accumulate a ball of oil
    that then pumps out of the cylinder.

    it has been about 6 years since being at that store.if i
    remember correctly it mainly picked on the left bank of
    cylinders facing oil pump end. and some of the reeds looked as if you took a bite out of it.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    East Stroudsburg, PA
    Posts
    13,215
    Where is the "E" located in the header, in relation to the "D"?

    It might be getting slammed by a case coming out defrost.

    I'd expect that all Carlyles on the rack would have the problem, not just the "E". They're all supersensitive to liquid and discharge heat. They make Copeland Discuses look tough...

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    East Stroudsburg, PA
    Posts
    13,215

    Exclamation ONE MORE THING!!!!!!!!!

    Turn off that CAPSLOCKS.

    It's considered "Shouting" on the internet, and is really rude.


  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Guayaquil EC
    Posts
    10,310
    Installing the discharge pressure regulator to hold the low stage discharge at 120# will cause a significant reduction in the capacity of the all low stage pumps. It might be wise to review the connected loads vs expected capacity.

    I left the market refrig arena back when these R22 2-stage racks became all the rage and some of these types of problems were just showing up in the field. I seem to recall that Copeland had to redesign their valves to stand up to booster (low stage) duty. Phoneix and Hussmann/Atlanta had a bunch of them out there around 1990 that were blowing valves left and right. Maybe the DPR was part of the fix.

    The old timers at D/B told me they had to change to a stiffer (I think) valves for booster compressors on 2-stage recip systems to hold up to the flutter and float. The original Hussmann Big System racks of the sixties were a two stage deal. I wonder if the did anything different back then? They likely did, but nobody's left to remember what they might have learned.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    21

    2 stage refrigeration.

    i apologize for caps lock,
    bare with me please.
    thanks for the replies everybody.
    even working for the factory for 21 years,all compressor rack designs were challenged with this problem.
    in the 90's we only used standard reed compressors for the boosters. Hussmann originally installed discus on the boosters and valves broke.all racks that had discuss comps were replaced to the reed type. since then that cured the problem with those particular racks. safeway( vons)never used that style rack after that.
    same senerio with tyler rack,( albertsons)carlyle comps
    o6e only crunched valves. i examined the suction and dischard header piping on that rack. verified controller set up and monitored entire defrostoperation. installed suction recorders on both booster and hi stage suction.
    monitored suction header and discharge header and check desuperheater for proper operation.
    consulted with carlyle corp and really recieved no good explaination on why this occurs only on 06e compressors.

  7. #7
    Low compression ratio leads to very high mass flow and broken compressors. The same fixes that were used to strengthen the Discus for HFC/POE were tried for booster application, but boosters had lost much of their appeal by the time that was done. I would stick with reeds for booster. At the low pressures you see on boosters, there will be very little difference in efficiency. Discus realy helps most at higher discharge pressures.

    Carlyle "06E"s run a different (lower I think) oil level than "06D"s and that can cause problems when they are mixed on racks. In general, I have found 06Es to be pretty fragile while the 06Ds are more reliable.

    The discharge regulator is a great idea, but not foolproof, so make sure the low side is behaving. Some of the trouble with the booster systems from Hussmann Atlanta in the early 90's was caused by Alco BEPRs that would stick and hit the suction header with hot (or Kool)gas during defrost. The DPR cannot account for that.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    384

    Hmm Better late than never???

    I ran across this old thread while searching the site.

    See the attachment for the fix!!!

    -the plate gasket and suction reeds need replaced.
    -A/C duty valve plates need to be installed
    -six hole baffle plate needs installed.

    I had to replace an 06E in one of these today. The service replacement refrigeration duty machine NEEDS these modifications to handle the higher mass flow and oil moving through the compressor
    Attached Images Attached Images
    "Don't wish it were easier, wish you were better"

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