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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    589

    Automated Logic with AX

    Has anyone ever used an FX60 with automated logic controllers? I do work at a building that has a bunch of vavs, boilers, and air handlers all being controlled by automated logic. This control system is at least 10 years old. Im not sure of the names of the controllers but I do know that the protocol is BACnet ms/tp. The owner wants to update his computer (Windows 98) along with a new supervisory controller. Has anyone ever used AX with automated logic before? I would like to try this but im not sure if it can be done considering the controllers are old. I will post more info when I get the submitals from the job.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Madison, WI
    Posts
    323
    Are you sure it's MSTP? If you're dealing with a 10 year old system, it's probably running SuperVision, and it's proprietary. You could get it upgraded to WebCTRL and have it run MSTP, but I'm guessing that won't be cheap...

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    3
    I do know there are PUP and PHP network driver in AX.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    589
    yes it is supervision. When I was working on the vav, I took a good look at the controller. It says BACnet mstp on it but the wires at the wire terminals going to the controller i think say cbus. Also, from what I saw on the control drawings, the controllers are not in a typical daisy chain. The supervisory controller daisy chains to 3 or 4 controllers (not sure what they are called, they aren't vavs) and from those, the vavs are daisy chained.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Madison, WI
    Posts
    323
    Quote Originally Posted by Igotworms View Post
    yes it is supervision. When I was working on the vav, I took a good look at the controller. It says BACnet mstp on it but the wires at the wire terminals going to the controller i think say cbus.
    I'm guessing you were looking at U341v+ modules. These are wired to a UNI/16 or 32 module. The U341 modules do talk MSTP to the UNI/16, but the UNI has custom programs that command the U modules what to do. So I don't think you'll be able to get anywhere going that route.

    Quote Originally Posted by Igotworms View Post
    Also, from what I saw on the control drawings, the controllers are not in a typical daisy chain. The supervisory controller daisy chains to 3 or 4 controllers (not sure what they are called, they aren't vavs) and from those, the vavs are daisy chained.
    If you look on the other modules, you should see a Legacy/ARC156 jumper. I'm guessing it is on the Legacy jumper position. If it is, most likely you'll have stars in the com lines instead of a daisy-chain.

    In any regards, it won't be an easy system to interface to via BACnet.

    It looks like you may have three main options (any other people - feel free to add)
    1) Keep system in SuperVision, add ALC BACnet Portal and have someone modify control programs to feed this module to expose to BACnet.
    2) Have someone upgrade the system to WebCTRL and expose to BACnet.
    3) Rip the system out and add your own controllers.

    It looks like any of the above options will be expensive since you're dealing with a proprietary system...

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    12

    Upgrade To Webctrl

    The least expensive way to go would be to to upgrade the existing software to WebCtrl. WebCtrl communicates over ip so you would have to replace the existing gateway (probably a GCM2) with an LGE. Get a new computer, expose it to the internet and your good to go.

    Your ALC dealer would have to do the software conversion but it is painless. I am actually suprised that they havent approached you years ago trying to get you to upgrade. They had some very attractive pricing trying to get rid of all the old Supervision or Interop sites.....

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    EU
    Posts
    161
    Quote Originally Posted by VicRider View Post
    I do know there are PUP and PHP network driver in AX.
    It's AAM, not AL

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    589
    thanks for all the replies

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    3,641
    Its possible to do it with the older stuff. The UNI was a PITA....but doable.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    589
    Freddy, what is involved to integrate to the older automated logic controls? I came across a jace connected to older automated logic controllers the other day. I wanted to see what drivers were being used but the company that installed it would tell me the password.

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